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Old 03/16/19, 03:45 PM   #1
nvrstuk
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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FlowKooler wtrpump bottoms out in timing chain cover...

...so doing some stuff in the front end and decided to update to the FlowKooler high block pressure wtrpump for the reverse rotation '96 Exploder...

Well, just sitting in place WITH FlowKoolers std thickness gasket I can easily slide a .015" thick feeler gauge in place and with it just setting in place while turning the pulley you can feel it dragging.

Anybody else hear of this?
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Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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Old 03/16/19, 03:55 PM   #2
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Hmm- I assume it's something to do with the Explorer timing cover ???
I installed a standard rotation flowcooler WP on the 351W and haven't had any issues. Other than the aluminum housing being noisier .
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Old 03/16/19, 03:56 PM   #3
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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Does anybody have one that can verify IF the end of the shaft should be flush with the back side of the impeller? If so, this would give me up to .050" more room.

TIA
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Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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Old 03/16/19, 04:03 PM   #4
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Hi, it looks like there is a little room under the impeller to press it on a little more.
I don't know why you would have to do that yourself.
Good luck
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Old 03/16/19, 04:09 PM   #5
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I may have missed something, but are you saying it rubs metal to metal just sitting there? Or is it rubbing the feeler gauge when you stick it in the space?
If it's not rubbing when sitting there but is with the gauge, I would remove the feeler, torque it to spec then check by spinning it again.

Sounds like maybe that's your concern? That when it's fully assembled there will be interference?
I'm guessing part of the efficiency achieved is through close tolerances. But whether fifteen-thou is too tight or not, I do not know.
But if it torques down tight and does not rub anything, I personally would not be worried about it.

Of course you might be on to something if you can determine that the gasket compresses very close to that distance, perhaps .014" to leave you with theoretically only .001" remaining. I would suppose that there can be minor flexing going on, but I would bet too, that it's not very much.

There may not be many members here that can confirm your findings though. Most of us will assemble it first, then check-spin it to make sure it's not rubbing. Only if it's binding or making noise would someone pull it apart to check.

They used to have semi-engineering drawings on their website. Have you checked to see if they have that info, or if there are any good photo images of it to see if the impeller is sitting flush on the shaft?
Looks like there is about the same clearance at the vane-to-casting side as there is at the shaft-to-impeller face. Did you measure that gap too, to see how much farther up the shaft it could go before interfering?

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 03/16/19, 04:21 PM   #6
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Sitting w/o bolts in place it has at least .015" interference and you can feel and hear it rub when turning it by hand.

IF I installed and torqued it to spec it wouldn't move at all...

I have appr. .042" gap between the front of the impeller and the volute so if I could press it forward another .025-.030" I'm sure it would be OK.

Just don't want to buy 2 wtrpumps...

I'll check out their website...
"

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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Old 03/16/19, 04:30 PM   #7
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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Paul, I couldn't find any spec sheet on their website but saw a pic and it looks like the shaft is recessed in about the same amount as mine...but it's hard to visually estimate .025" by a pic...

I'll try pressing it on another .025"...see how it goes.

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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Old 03/16/19, 04:56 PM   #8
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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I pressed it on .023". It spins smooth with their gasket in place...

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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Old 03/16/19, 07:54 PM   #9
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Sweet. Are you going to call, or e-mail them to let them know what you had to do to make it work?

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 03/16/19, 08:50 PM   #10
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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That would be me! : ) I will ask them first what the specs should be btw the impeller and the timing chain cover (back part of the volute...

Thx

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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Old Yesterday, 12:34 PM   #11
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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Flowkoolers customer service leaves something to be desired after me calling 3 days in a row and they told me each day they were calling me back I think I accidentally got hold of the guy that was supposed to call me back. He was just about as concerned as somebody that really hated their job.

I was very pleasant, just asked what the technical specs should be for clearance...

He didn't say that they were concerned, that they cared, that they were sorry that it didn't fit, that there was anything they would do to help.

He did said things like well back in the day we used to run extra gaskets if we needed clearance!
Not impressed at all

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM   #12
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Well ain't that just lovely. Or rather, it sucks!
Too bad then that they make an otherwise decent product, or maybe they'd get a clue when people stop buying it.

I remember the double-gasket thing though. Was not going to even mention it because I thought that was a long-gone thing of the past from when their high-flow mechanism was a riveted on disc of galvanized steel!
Back then you could buy the whole pump, or buy the kit and rivet the disc on to your own water pump impeller.
The added gasket (I think they may even have included two gaskets?) was part of the equation. I did not need one on mine, but remember the possibility.

You'd think that with their grand wazoo impeller design (and premium price) they'd want to include "consistent accuracy" as part of their shtick.
Oh well, with luck you'll literally never have to remove it again. I'm still going to continue to use their product, and hope I don't have to do it again as well.
Just on principle as much as anything else. I hate doing water pumps!

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old Yesterday, 10:21 PM   #13
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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Yeah Paul...doubling up the gaskets was typical "fix" for stuff back in the day...along with hammering stuff a bit to get it to fit right...but like you said, for the premium price you'd think we wouldn't be back in the days of riveting our impellers on ourselves...or making our own speedometer cables and crimping the ends on with pliers ourselves... I was kinda hoping that it would "just fit"!

Thanks for the response!

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes, 518 HP, SEFI, EDIS, Still 20+ forward gears...CB build:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=278607 NWCB Stroker/SEFI/EDIS/4r70W/KluneV/TrueHi9 build: http://northwestclassicbroncos.com/s...n-to-SEFI-EDIS
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