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Slack in Steering

c17jack

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
75
I have what I consider excessive play in my steering. Everything in the entire steering system is brand new with the exception of the gear box. I did as mentioned on this forum and had friend sit in cab and rock steering wheel back and forth without actually turning the wheel. I have about 2-3" of free play from the gearbox before the pitman arm ever moves. I broke the jambnut loose on the gearbox to see if a slight adjustment might tighten it up some but it is already all the way in. So no adjustment.

I get that these are broncos and not a new mustang, but driving down the road it's pretty darty and you have to be up on the wheel. 33" tires, 3.5 suspension lift and rancho steering stabilizer already on it.

Would this work from Summit? or other suggestions?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-800125/year/1975/make/ford/model/bronco

TIA Jack
 

EricLar80

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,170
Yes, that box would work, but it's not great for tires over 33". Do you happen to have the quick-turn steering ratio in your current box? That tends to exacerbate the issue if you gears are already worn from 50 years of use.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,796
Is not that the 4x4x2 box? Works great with my 35s, maybe to great.
 
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c17jack

c17jack

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
75
Yes, that box would work, but it's not great for tires over 33". Do you happen to have the quick-turn steering ratio in your current box? That tends to exacerbate the issue if you gears are already worn from 50 years of use.

I believe it is the stock steering box from 1975. Seems like from what i've read its a 7 turn box but i have never confirmed by counting. You have to turn it quite a bit to get it to turn decent.
 

SHX669

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,997
When you're " rocking the steering wheel" is the motir running ? - if not that changes the equation.
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
I recently had the factory box on my '77 rebuilt. This is the second time it's been rebuilt in 300K miles.
This time the rebuilder had to use oversized balls because of the worn worm gear. This mad a real difference in the wheel play. A basic overhaul would have never fixed this slop.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,835
Power steering, with the engine off, will have play in the input shaft. There is a torsion bar that you are flexing. That torsion bar stiffness is what sets steering effort. A soft spring, easy to flex, super power steering. A stiff spring, takes a lot of force to flex, firming feeling steering.

Why the flex? It controls the flow through the ports on the control valve. Flex the spring, the ports controlling fluid flow start putting fluid to one side of the piston that gives assist. Load that torsion bar some more and more fluid goes to the piston and the bypass gets pinched. You don't feel it while driving because the powersteering is doing it's best to stay self centered. With the engine off you flex the spring until it reaches the internal stops and you have the manual steering.

Something else to note. The steering box is only tight when on center. Toward the limits of travel there will be more backlash. That is normal and expected. You will only find it when looking for it. While driving you will never fell that backlash that far off center.

Now that we have some of the normal actions out of the way. Couple more things to look at.
Are the bolts holding the box to the frame tight? Yes, that has been a problem that has been overlooked more than once.
Next, is the frame cracked? A flexing frame will cause wonder.
While at it, have a track bar drop bracket on the frame? is it welded? Is the frame around the track bar bracket cracked?
Have you had an alignment done, or even checked? Toe out wonders bad.
Caster? 3½" of lift makes it really hard to have a positive caster number. The factory spec is very low. Set when manual steering was all that was available. Same axle in '78 when power steering was standard jumped to 6-8° positive caster. That is about 6° more than what yours came with stock, and a lift made it worse. This is one of those things that really takes some fab work to get right, not just bolting on a replacement part.
 
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c17jack

c17jack

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
75
Power steering, with the engine off, will have play in the input shaft. There is a torsion bar that you are flexing. That torsion bar stiffness is what sets steering effort. A soft spring, easy to flex, super power steering. A stiff spring, takes a lot of force to flex, firming feeling steering.

Why the flex? It controls the flow through the ports on the control valve. Flex the spring, the ports controlling fluid flow start putting fluid to one side of the piston that gives assist. Load that torsion bar some more and more fluid goes to the piston and the bypass gets pinched. You don't feel it while driving because the powersteering is doing it's best to stay self centered. With the engine off you flex the spring until it reaches the internal stops and you have the manual steering.

Something else to note. The steering box is only tight when on center. Toward the limits of travel there will be more backlash. That is normal and expected. You will only find it when looking for it. While driving you will never fell that backlash that far off center.

Now that we have some of the normal actions out of the way. Couple more things to look at.
Are the bolts holding the box to the frame tight? Yes, that has been a problem that has been overlooked more than once.
Next, is the frame cracked? A flexing frame will cause wonder.
While at it, have a track bar drop bracket on the frame? is it welded? Is the frame around the track bar bracket cracked?
Have you had an alignment done, or even checked? Toe out wonders bad.
Caster? 3½" of lift makes it really hard to have a positive caster number. The factory spec is very low. Set when manual steering was all that was available. Same axle in '78 when power steering was standard jumped to 6-8° positive caster. That is about 6° more than what yours came with stock, and a lift made it worse. This is one of those things that really takes some fab work to get right, not just bolting on a replacement part.

Thanks for all the info, I don't have a trac bar drop bracket but I do have a Trac-bar riser bracket, I believe i got it from Duff that is welded to axle. I have also checked for play in bolt on opposite end of trac-bar and its good. As far as the alignment. Alignment was just done, All bolts on gearbox are tight but i will look tonight to see if there is any flex around the frame. I'll also check steering play again tonight with engine running.
 

bigmuddy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
7,001
Loc.
Marthasville Missouri
Go over everything that even slightly has play. a small amount of play in the linkage becomes large play at the steering wheel in my experience.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,835
Don't overlook the rear end as well. Some leaf spring bushings going away can allow the rear axle to shift just a little bit, and that will cause a wander in the front you will never find.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,353
And with all new stuff, were any of the linkages changed in design too? Or just stock new stuff? What about steering wheel diameter? Stock, or smaller?

What year is the Bronco? The 66 through '75 boxes (manual and power were pretty much the same number of turns) gearboxes were roughly 6.5 turns lock-to-lock, whereas the quicker '76 and '77 gearboxes, as well as most of the full-size power steering boxes, were more in the 4.25 to 4.5 turns lock-to-lock range.

With the riser, did you also add a dropped pitman arm? New bushings in the trackbar? Lower bolt was welded up along with the riser bracket?
Back to the steering linkage, some tie-rod and drag-link setups add more slop to the steering. Some of them can be adjusted to reduce it, but others can't. That's why I asked about any changes in design.

If there is a full discussion on this already, please add a link. When you can too, add some of your details to your signature line so we can see what you have without trying to remember if we've asked already. Something I'm doing a lot lately!:eek::cry:

Thanks

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,353
And along with looking at the rear end, what are your tire pressures?

Paul
 
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c17jack

c17jack

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
75
And with all new stuff, were any of the linkages changed in design too? Or just stock new stuff? What about steering wheel diameter? Stock, or smaller?

What year is the Bronco? The 66 through '75 boxes (manual and power were pretty much the same number of turns) gearboxes were roughly 6.5 turns lock-to-lock, whereas the quicker '76 and '77 gearboxes, as well as most of the full-size power steering boxes, were more in the 4.25 to 4.5 turns lock-to-lock range.

With the riser, did you also add a dropped pitman arm? New bushings in the trackbar? Lower bolt was welded up along with the riser bracket?
Back to the steering linkage, some tie-rod and drag-link setups add more slop to the steering. Some of them can be adjusted to reduce it, but others can't. That's why I asked about any changes in design.

If there is a full discussion on this already, please add a link. When you can too, add some of your details to your signature line so we can see what you have without trying to remember if we've asked already. Something I'm doing a lot lately!:eek::cry:

Thanks

Paul

Parts i have added/changed are

Steering https://shop.broncograveyard.com/Adjustable-Steering-Rod-Kit-1966-75/productinfo/12727/

Lift https://shop.broncograveyard.com/35-Deluxe-Lift-Kit-1966-75/productinfo/13810/

Trac bar https://shop.broncograveyard.com/Adjustable-Trac-Bar-66-75/productinfo/13515/

1975 Bronco and with riser bracket i did weld up the main bolt and I have also installed a smaller steering wheel.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,353
Not sure what the actual numbers were. Did it at a friend of mines shop didn't write down any of the numbers. I just remember it was all in the "Green"

Next time you have a chance to do an alignment, get the numbers for the record. Either a printout, or if not available then at least a screen shot of the results.
The problem is that the old numbers are not always optimum in today's world, and knowing things like the exact caster number can help you decide which way to go on other modifications.

Parts i have added/changed are:


Ok good. You get the proper angle of the tie-rod's drag link hole because it's pre-set at the factory angle. And also get the adjustability of the drag link.


Pitman arm and riser. Check.
How are the angles between the draglink and trackbar? Pivot points at equal height above the ground?


Good option too. Let's yo fine tune the axle side-to-side.

1975 Bronco

Thanks. What month was it built in? Just curious if you have the later 4-turn steering box or the 6-turn early box.

have also installed a smaller steering wheel.

Can really help with the 6-turn box, but can get a bit twitchy with the 4-turn box.

Thanks for the additional info.

Paul
 
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c17jack

c17jack

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
75
Next time you have a chance to do an alignment, get the numbers for the record. Either a printout, or if not available then at least a screen shot of the results.
The problem is that the old numbers are not always optimum in today's world, and knowing things like the exact caster number can help you decide which way to go on other modifications.





Ok good. You get the proper angle of the tie-rod's drag link hole because it's pre-set at the factory angle. And also get the adjustability of the drag link.



Pitman arm and riser. Check.
How are the angles between the draglink and trackbar? Pivot points at equal height above the ground?



Good option too. Let's yo fine tune the axle side-to-side.



Thanks. What month was it built in? Just curious if you have the later 4-turn steering box or the 6-turn early box.



Can really help with the 6-turn box, but can get a bit twitchy with the 4-turn box.

Thanks for the additional info.

Paul

Angles appear good to me with trac bar. See photo, also i just checked my tire pressures and they are at 32 all the way around. Tires are BFG all terrains 33 x 12.5 x 15
 

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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,353
Ok, I misjudged the picture you linked to on JBG's site. You DO in fact have an alignment issue with the multi-adjustable tie-rod.
You need to loosen all three adjusting sleeves, rotate the center tie-rod link "up" so that the grease fitting on the lower draglink end points up at an approx. 60° angle. Basically up at the bottom of the radiator.
This mimics the factory angle and reduces the amount of play in the system taken up by "tie-rod roll" instead of the tie-rod moving in a linear fashion following the pitman arm.

When you did the test with the helper racking the wheel back and forth, did you notice the tie-rod rotating up and down when it transitioned between left and right? This is a big deal and is due to the orientation of the draglink trying to "push down" or "pull up" on the tie rod, rather than pushing right and pulling left.

Changing this orientation will also change the overall angle of the draglink, potent taking them out of, or putting them back into parallel. Just have to deal with that as a separate issue after you correct the angle.

Paul
 
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