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Duff 4-Link Street Version

Monster Mike

Sponsor/Vendor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,768
Where or when did I edit a post after you replied? It states under the post date and time edited. My original post about the issue was never edited. I only edited post 68 at 6:52 am and you replied at 8:05 am.

Yes, post 68 was edited after I quoted it. You’re in Utah so your time stamp is MST. I’m in Knoxville, TN & my time stamp is EST (2 hours earlier than MST). Which means 20-30 minutes after I quoted and answered your post you edited it.

We can confirm this with an admin if you’d like?

EDIT: Or should I say, an addition to. I don’t want to come off argumentative. I’m not interested in being right just to be right. I just want the customer to be satisfied with our product and our service. It’s quite possible Jason that you made your edit w/o seeing my post where I quoted you in post #68 and didn’t realize it until later just like I did. A completely fair and honest possibility. What is not fair and honest and rather unsettling to me is the suggestion that I altered your words. Not saying you suggest that but as a person and a vendor it’s a blow to my character and integrity and I must defend that always when it’s in question. I’m not here to twist words or spin anything to my advantage. I just want to make this good for both of us.

Hope that makes sense.

MM
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
Yes, post 68 was edited after I quoted it. You’re in Utah so your time stamp is MST. I’m in Knoxville, TN & my time stamp is EST (2 hours earlier than MST). Which means 20-30 minutes after I quoted and answered your post you edited it.

We can confirm this with an admin if you’d like?

MM

1. Ok just so everyone's clear I never edited my original post (#63)
2. I edited post #68 but only to add more detail not to change/contradict something I said.
3. Your responses to the situation aren't ideal compared to my experiences with other vendors. Never do you truly accept fault and also seem to have an excuse by implying maybe you need special instructions for people like me, tax season, etc. NO, you need the correct instructions or you need to send out the correctly bent product. Those plates (as I pictured) will not work with your shocks or anyone else's for that matter based on your current install instructions. Nor has anyone called to ask about the plates, ask to measure to see if it's indeed what's wrong or offer new plates. Maybe the lack of a call back was because I asked about the recent addition of a $50 rebate if the sway bar was purchased with a 4-link kit. Maybe I shouldn't have asked if JD would honor it since I purchased mine a few weeks before.
4. You lost some faith in JD's customer service from me.

A response like this would have made the situation better...

"Jason, sorry for the issues you're having with the install and lack of a callback from us. You're correct, the install instructions for the 4-link setup contradict the advertised install pics on our website for this kit. Either way, the heim links should work as described in the instructions. I believe what has possibly happened is the tabs weren't bent all the way. If you could, would you measure the degree of bend in the tabs and let me know what you get. I want to verify that it is indeed whats happened so we can make sure it doesn't happen again in the future. With that said, I have two options for you. 1. we can send you correctly bent tabs once we verify that is indeed the issue. 2. they are fine to run like you have them mounted as long as you confirm your shocks won't interfere with travel."
 

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bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,916
I hate when threads like this get all bent out of shape.

I bet Jason is a good guy. I don't know him but just the fact that he owns an eb makes him cool to me.

I "know" Mike is a good guy.

Must be a real disconnect here.

I think a little of Mike's humor may have been misunderstood. He is one of the most nice and sincere folks in the eb business.
Mr. James Duff would have cut you off much sooner. The fact that Mike is still responding to a situation like this says a lot.
Mike is a vendor rep but hes also one of our buddies here on CB so we jab him pretty hard at times and he is more than capable of defending himself and jabbing back.

.... Jason....I know your mad....but give Mike and Duff's another chance. Let this altercation be something we all laugh about years from now.

Respectfully Submitted,
Steve in O'Town.
 

Madgyver

Bronco Madman
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,678
I have the same swaybar. we just cut, bent and welded the lower attachment tab. No issue....
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
I hate when threads like this get all bent out of shape.

I bet Jason is a good guy. I don't know him but just the fact that he owns an eb makes him cool to me.

I "know" Mike is a good guy.

Must be a real disconnect here.

I think a little of Mike's humor may have been misunderstood. He is one of the most nice and sincere folks in the eb business.
Mr. James Duff would have cut you off much sooner. The fact that Mike is still responding to a situation like this says a lot.
Mike is a vendor rep but hes also one of our buddies here on CB so we jab him pretty hard at times and he is more than capable of defending himself and jabbing back.

.... Jason....I know your mad....but give Mike and Duff's another chance. Let this altercation be something we all laugh about years from now.

Respectfully Submitted,
Steve in O'Town.


I don't doubt Mike's a good guy I just don't like it when vendors immediately go to making excuses whether they have merit or not. I've never dealt with James Duff but I'd hope he wouldn't cut someone off who's attempting to rectify a situation that is a result from a faulty product shipped (possibly not bent enough) or install instructions that state things that are false ( "There is a specific way the rods and links must be attached") evidently they can be installed on either side. I also called twice and never got a response which is why I posted. The fact that he's still responding is not impressive to me as its more in line with what a vendor should do. JD is not the first and only vendor I've dealt with and when problems arise some handle things better than others. I'm not mad as it seems like they will work installed the opposite of the instructions just disappointed in the handling by JD. I'm still excited about the system and still will give an honest opinion and unbiased of this situation once the coyote stuffs done and she's on the road.
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
I have the same swaybar. we just cut, bent and welded the lower attachment tab. No issue....

So, the product arrives bent and powder-coated with the installer simply needing to bolt it on with 3 bolts and you're done. Instead, you have to remove it once you realize it won't work, heat it up and bend it, have it re-powdercoated, then reinstall as originally intended. In my book, that constitutes an issue, but I get your point in that its not a huge hurdle.
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,916
I don't doubt Mike's a good guy I just don't like it when vendors immediately go to making excuses whether they have merit or not. I've never dealt with James Duff but I'd hope he wouldn't cut someone off who's attempting to rectify a situation that is a result from a faulty product shipped (possibly not bent enough) or install instructions that state things that are false ( "There is a specific way the rods and links must be attached") evidently they can be installed on either side. I also called twice and never got a response which is why I posted. The fact that he's still responding is not impressive to me as its more in line with what a vendor should do. JD is not the first and only vendor I've dealt with and when problems arise some handle things better than others. I'm not mad as it seems like they will work installed the opposite of the instructions just disappointed in the handling by JD. I'm still excited about the system and still will give an honest opinion and unbiased of this situation once the coyote stuffs done and she's on the road.


let me be clear James Duff would not have been rude he just wouldn't have continued the conversation once it got tense. But Mike is quite the Diplomat and will hand over the Olive Branch again and again
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
let me be clear James Duff would not have been rude he just wouldn't have continued the conversation once it got tense. But Mike is quite the Diplomat and will hand over the Olive Branch again and again



I understand that and again I don’t consider this a big deal but for the sake of learning from a situation I do think it could have been handled better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Madgyver

Bronco Madman
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,678
So, the product arrives bent and powder-coated with the installer simply needing to bolt it on with 3 bolts and you're done. Instead, you have to remove it once you realize it won't work, heat it up and bend it, have it re-powdercoated, then reinstall as originally intended. In my book, that constitutes an issue, but I get your point in that its not a huge hurdle.

no problem if you build it to your own specs. a lot of the aftermarket parts are available to builders. Each bronco regardless if they are the same year with the same driveline will not be identical no matter what you think.
Go buy a door and expect it to fit, you'll be lucky if it does. same with a hood or hardtop. they all will need adjustments to fit on YOUR bronco. That is the same with suspension parts, brake parts, interiors, seats, etc.
You can choose to move on, keep on building it or continue to listen to your builder bitch about it.
Your choice. Are you building a SEMA fails rig or are you going to drive it like you stole it?
BTW IMHO powder coats are overrated. Thay don't last in salty enviroments, But you knew that....
 

ZOSO

Full Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2003
Messages
345
I understand that and again I don’t consider this a big deal but for the sake of learning from a situation I do think it could have been handled better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My 2 cents.

After having a few issues with Duff products I spoke directly to Monster mike privately. He handled everything perfectly for me. Even on thanksgiving weekend he went into the shop and got some information for me. Worked with me after hours over night a few times as well. He understands that not all broncos are equal. And if you bring these issues up in a polite manner he will take care of it quickly. He did say they may not have been bent enough and he would check the others. All it takes is a PM with MM and he will respond.
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
My 2 cents.

After having a few issues with Duff products I spoke directly to Monster mike privately. He handled everything perfectly for me. Even on thanksgiving weekend he went into the shop and got some information for me. Worked with me after hours over night a few times as well. He understands that not all broncos are equal. And if you bring these issues up in a polite manner he will take care of it quickly. He did say they may not have been bent enough and he would check the others. All it takes is a PM with MM and he will respond.

I'm sure Mike appreciates the character witness here. I've had great experiences with JD in the past but they dropped the ball here by not returning two separate phone calls and providing inaccurate install instructions. The fact that you had a great experience doesn't mean mine wasn't negative. I'm sure if I DM'd Mike he would respond and help out. Mike has already confirmed that the part will work contradictory to the install instructions so as far as I'm concerned the issue is resolved.
 

ngsd

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
2,531
Ok then, I guess it is over.
 

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bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,916
I'm sure Mike appreciates the character witness here. I've had great experiences with JD in the past but they dropped the ball here by not returning two separate phone calls and providing inaccurate install instructions. The fact that you had a great experience doesn't mean mine wasn't negative. I'm sure if I DM'd Mike he would respond and help out. Mike has already confirmed that the part will work contradictory to the install instructions so as far as I'm concerned the issue is resolved.



Not wanting this to carry on but we are not character witnesses my friend.
"You are new here still"
We are just trying to guide you.

We have all been here.
Some have gotten all bent out of shape like you and ranted on CB. You seem cool so we are trying to help you.
Mike and Duff will make it right and you seem to see that now.

Let me guess here,

You finally got some free time to install this rather complicated kit and you got to a portion of the kit that just isn't right. You are not an idiot and you are obviously mechanically inclined or you would not have taken this on. So you know that you have tried to make it work but the part and the instructions are in error. You're frustrated because you finally got time to do this and one stupid part is stopping you. It will probably be the following weekend before you can get back under it....damn it....so you try calling the vendor to get a quick answer,.... cuz we're all busy anymore and you'd like to get back on this. They don't get back to you right away, when they finally do, there is no simple fix, there is no simple answer. Which is leaving you hanging and leaving your Bronco half put together in your garage.

If this is what you dealt with, I have as well....
When a lot of those sort of things were happening to me it was pre-internet. And of course the only time I had to do that sort of work on the Bronco was on the weekends. And of course those vendors are typically not open on the weekends. I can remember being very frustrated. So I feel your pain. But I promise you that the vendors in the early Bronco Community are like none others. They will come through for you, this will get made right, you will be made whole. Your Bronco is going to be one sick b**** if it's got this four link on it...... and I think you know that.

I'm truly hoping this is something we'll all laugh about a couple years from now. Maybe all of us will get to go 4-wheeling together somewhere.
 

Madgyver

Bronco Madman
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,678
let's all watch this build.... see where it is at this summer.
I'm sure the builder will get past this issue and find new ones...
 

englewoodcowboy

Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,200
Man I am late to this show... Well I can speak for the 4 link to a point to date. Again I approached Michael and Suzy for a 4 link offering that would work with a 1" body lift and Michael got to work and the Street 4 Link was born. I have the first one in my shop (actually at powder coat right now) for a custom build we are doing. Duff's contacted me before they committed to sending a setup to Gateway and I had no problem with that and glad they were able to work through some issues for the setup and extreme power that Gateway put in front of it because we are doing something similar. The chassis should be at Super Cel on display in Duff's booth and the bronco will be completed and delivered at Super Cel West if any are interested in seeing it done. For our build it will feature a turbocharged 408 small block Windsor, be uncut and on 33" tires. It will also feature the new Duff Eibach shocks, T Rex and sway bars. It should handle like its on rails when done. The 4 link is full of adjustability which is greatly needed so we can adjust pinion angles and ride height and tweak wheel base placement for that correct look with relative ease. We should have it on the road in August and I will do a full write up just as I did on the Duck Tuff suspension. I know this coming info is not available right this second but it is coming and it will be truthful and unbiased as Michael will tell you, if I don't like it I let him know and we work together to make it right. This is why I chose to work with and partner on projects with Duff because of Michael and Suzy and their staff. They always do right by me and that says more in my books than anything else going. You made a superb choice for parts!
 

ngsd

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
2,531
Well said! So much so that I took your previous experience to heart when I ordered my DuckTuff suspension that you collaborated on.

I think that this has been covered well and there will always be those that expect everything to be vetted out and perfect out of the box and those that realize that things needs tweaking on these old beasts.

There will be those that can have a meaningful conversation with a vendor and sort things out and those that will take their fight to the internet for opinion.

I really enjoy active conversations but I also have to gauge my trust to enough info for me to make a valid choice and it usually works out for me. Duff's has overwhelming loyalty from the majority of the active people in this community. You don't get that unless you have done the right thing over time. Occasionally problems happen but in the big picture Duff's wouldn't be where they are at unless they were solid.

Please end this madness, pick up the phone and solve the issue privately. You can do it!
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
Not wanting this to carry on but we are not character witnesses my friend.
"You are new here still"
We are just trying to guide you.

We have all been here.
Some have gotten all bent out of shape like you and ranted on CB. You seem cool so we are trying to help you.
Mike and Duff will make it right and you seem to see that now.

Let me guess here,

You finally got some free time to install this rather complicated kit and you got to a portion of the kit that just isn't right. You are not an idiot and you are obviously mechanically inclined or you would not have taken this on. So you know that you have tried to make it work but the part and the instructions are in error. You're frustrated because you finally got time to do this and one stupid part is stopping you. It will probably be the following weekend before you can get back under it....damn it....so you try calling the vendor to get a quick answer,.... cuz we're all busy anymore and you'd like to get back on this. They don't get back to you right away, when they finally do, there is no simple fix, there is no simple answer. Which is leaving you hanging and leaving your Bronco half put together in your garage. The point that you're attempting to make is lost on me...so as a Bronco owner if you're frustrated don't say you're frustrated on a forum related to the product/vendor? I didn't bash him or the product

If this is what you dealt with, I have as well....
When a lot of those sort of things were happening to me it was pre-internet. And of course the only time I had to do that sort of work on the Bronco was on the weekends. And of course those vendors are typically not open on the weekends. I can remember being very frustrated. So I feel your pain. But I promise you that the vendors in the early Bronco Community are like none others. They will come through for you, this will get made right, you will be made whole. Your Bronco is going to be one sick b**** if it's got this four link on it...... and I think you know that.

I'm truly hoping this is something we'll all laugh about a couple years from now. Maybe all of us will get to go 4-wheeling together somewhere.

What exactly are you guiding me to? I'm a mid 40's male and this isn't my first time building cars or motorcycles or working with vendors. The facts are the facts... I called twice and a week later I still didn't get a callback. The instructions are incorrect and more than likely a product left the warehouse incorrectly. Yes, I understand stuff happens and I wouldn't take an "N of one" and apply it to the whole experience. I posted here to share progress, my frustration about not getting a call back after a week, and ask the group here if they thought it would be an issue if mounted opposite of the way the instructions say to install. It wasn't a bash nor a rant. I didn't like some of Mike's responses related to "special instructions for people like me" but ultimately he answered my questions....done. No, your guess is incorrect I started installing it with help the day it arrived. Yes, it halted progress when I never received a callback but I have lots to do so I just moved on to something else why I waited on a return call. I have also had Emily from KE call me on the weekend while on vacation to help me with a part issue for the coyote front drive. I've also immediately become a paid contributor here and have posted things that I hope help the community, look back at the first post here, this is the reason for this thread after all. I've also let JD tag me and use my photographs of backroads_bronco on IG/social media. I've posted installs of my JD 2.5" lift kit, Hiem steering, and more. I think most people here help people including the vendors but that doesn't make you immune to criticism when you have a slip-up nor does it all of a sudden make you a bad vendor. These criticisms should be encouraged because they keep us in check and ultimately help us all to be better.
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
let's all watch this build.... see where it is at this summer.
I'm sure the builder will get past this issue and find new ones...



It’s a coyote swap that’s 90% done. Fighting fitment issues is constant. So far I’m pleased with this 4-link setup and hopefully that continues once I run it through the paces.


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