Some of us in the EB community for 50+ years remember the 351W conversion oil pans by James Duff that modified EB 289/302 oil pans to work on 351Ws. I'm doing that right now and have encountered some unforeseen obstacles with the oil pump fitment. Does anyone have 1st hand experience with the Duff's pan? James has retired and is hard to reach.
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Duff's 351W coversion oil pan
- Thread starter jckkys
- Start date
75MIKE
Sr. Member
Yep, I have one of the Duffs originals under my Bronco in the garage as we speak. I can't remember if I had to send both of the pans in for them to mod them or if there was a core charge for both. Plus a little "box" was added to the bottom for the pump to sit down in.
bronconut73
Bronco Guru
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- Aug 7, 2012
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Milodon high volume oil pump will fit if you grind the bottom of the pump to fit the shape of the pan. The pump is real flat on the bottom but the pan is rounded. I also cut down the length of my front sump oil plug bolt.
Been like that since '91 with zero issues.
One piece oil pan gasket is a nice addition and available almost anywhere now. Got mine at Summit back in '91.
Been like that since '91 with zero issues.
One piece oil pan gasket is a nice addition and available almost anywhere now. Got mine at Summit back in '91.
Last edited:
SteveL
Huge chevy guy
Jim have those pans on mine. I think back in the day it was noted a hv pump won't clear. A stock pump should. I just ground down the casting to make the hv pump fit. The milodon pan may have more room for a hv pump
The 351 pump has on a longer "stalk" to clear the crank's counter weights. This places the housing too low to fit in the pan. Specifically the relief valve portion directly interferes with the arc of the counter weight. All the 351 pumps the machine shop has, low or high volume, share this problem, and they have quite a few. Another problem is the fact that the bolts securing the pickup tube to the pump are oriented at a different angle. So the 302 pickup plate or flange will have to be heated, turned, and re-silver soldered to work with the 351 pump. I need to keep the Bronco 289/302 pickup to reach the deeper sump of the Bronco pan. The duel sump pans aren't near as deep. Thanks to 75MIKE. An added box for the pump housing is the only solution the machine shop and myself could come up with. Did the Duff's conversion include a modified pickup?
SteveL
Huge chevy guy
Mine came with a pickup. Cant say if they were special. It was over 20 years ago when I bought em. Probably closer to 30 when I got the 1st kit.
SteveL
Huge chevy guy
I later I assumed they were just the 351w fox body kit but others said its different.
bronconut73
Bronco Guru
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I was told by a reliable source that it is an OEM pan for an 80's Mercury Grand Marquis with a 351W.
I remember checking the Ford dealer for one back in the 90's and Duffs was $20 bucks less and included the pick-up. Love me some Duff's.
The duel sump pans were basically '80s Panther body (ie Crown Vic 351 police car) pans. Not made for the EB chassis. They were also used on the rare '95 Mustang Cobra R 5.8, but not on other Fox bodies. These are the 351 pans sold by EB vendors for 351 conversions for the last 30+ yrs. They're a lot cheaper than what I'm doing. The OE Bronco pan tho, is the only one that isn't touched by the front axle when the front suspension is fully compressed. I'd love to see picture of 75MIKE's pan to get an idea what I need to do. I've been trying to talk to James Duff, but he's retired and rarely goes to Suzy's shop.
bronconut73
Bronco Guru
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My axle has never hit my Duff/Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Panther chassis 351W pan.
Seems like it would be nearly impossible for it to do that in my configuration. For a 351W it seems to have the most clearance albeit with the least volume....
As I recall Stacy David had trouble with Crazy Horse's Milodon oil pan he used on his 302/347. So some of them do have clearance issues, even fancy aftermarket ones do. But they are purposely sacrificing suspension travel/room to gain oil volume and oil control. They have baffles and trap doors and stuff. But the irony here, is that oil control was Stacey's big problem with his Milodon 7 qt oil pan.....he lost oil pressure going up hills. I recall the show where he had to shut the motor down in the middle of a hill climb.
Seems like it would be nearly impossible for it to do that in my configuration. For a 351W it seems to have the most clearance albeit with the least volume....
As I recall Stacy David had trouble with Crazy Horse's Milodon oil pan he used on his 302/347. So some of them do have clearance issues, even fancy aftermarket ones do. But they are purposely sacrificing suspension travel/room to gain oil volume and oil control. They have baffles and trap doors and stuff. But the irony here, is that oil control was Stacey's big problem with his Milodon 7 qt oil pan.....he lost oil pressure going up hills. I recall the show where he had to shut the motor down in the middle of a hill climb.
My dual sump pan wasn't hit by the front axle either at least in the 30+ yrs, I've been using it. The entire question came up while measuring the collapsed length needed for new Fox shocks. The F250 upper shock mounts were an unknown. So I set the '77 down on the bump stops, with no springs. That's when the pan was hit, exposing the problem. I had simply swapped in an '87 Crown Vic 351 PI engine with the duel sump pan intact, easiest 351 swap there was. The EB flex plate and front dress including the harmonic damper went onto the 351. The oil pan is the first complication of that swap. I WILL make the EB 289/302 pan work on the 351.
bronconut73
Bronco Guru
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Sounds like some sheet metal welding is in your future Sir.
SteveL
Huge chevy guy
Could always run bump stops
Thankfully the body guy at the restoration shop is a master welder, and he sees no problem. The biggest part of the welding is the 351 rear main bearing saddle being spliced onto the 289/302 pan. Taller bump stops would loose some front suspension travel I got with the F250 shock mounts.
I was planning to just cut the whole mounting flange including the front and rear main off the 351 pan then do the same to the eb pan. Weld them together with an extra half inch of depth and then you have an oil pan for a 351 that fits the eb chassis and clears the oil pump too. Problem solved. I realize it is going to be alot of work but i think i can do it
I like that! It may work better than the piecemeal plan A. I'll go to the machine shop tomorrow to check the feasibility of Crush plan B. I got 75MIKE's pictures of the box added to the front of the EB pan, that seems more complex than 1 peripheral cut. The Milodon pans do that same cut, but they add their high volume sumps.
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