170 cu in rebuild kit

reinvnt45 · Nov 24, 2020

Hi all

I have a 67 wagon pretty much stock, it’s my daily driver. Had it just over a year, three on the tree, love it to death. Doing routine maintenance, stock parts etc, pulled the oil Pan and found some aluminum “gold” nugget shavings. It’s expected, I don’t think this motor has ever been rebuilt.I started to notice a “dry” knock, only on start up for like three- four revolutions.

Questions are, best crank and cam kits, main bearing, gaskets all that is necessary for a decent rebuild. Also, any recommendations on items that can help give this little work horse more HP. I have contemplated finding a 200 in-line six but this has numbers completely matching. Not yet I guess.

Any experience or recommendations I greatly appreciate it. I know everyone’s desire is the heck out the small in-line six and go with the 302 but I’m just not into that.

Thanks
JP
http://ibb.co/1GS7Q40
http://ibb.co/7Yj8x96
http://ibb.co/0J7PXXJ

Broncobowsher · Nov 25, 2020

A thought, will the 200 guts fit in a 170 block? You could keep the correct date code block (numbers matching)

I don't know enough of the I6 to know if it was a bore or a stroke change for the change to 200. I just know that engine had 4 and 7 main bearing designs depending on the mood of the day.

B RON CO · Nov 25, 2020

Hi, the old school rebuild is to recondition the original parts. Cut the crank, bore the cylinders, recondition the rods, and rebuild the head. New pistons, rings, bearings, etc. All the worn out parts rebuilt to like new specs or replaced with new parts.
Get Tom Monroe's book How to Rebuild Small Block Ford Engines and you will have a good look into the whole process, and it does relate to the 6 cylinders.
As mentioned, the 200 is a direct bolt in, but be aware, after 1969 the carb opening was enlarged so your old carb won't fit on the later head.
There is a Ford Falcon Performance Handbook giving a lot of info about the engine family, available at Vintage Inlines.
Visit Fordsix.com to learn more about your Ford six.
Good luck

reinvnt45 · Nov 25, 2020

Thanks again! Yes, your lingo is correct! Reconditioning! My biggest obstacle, all local machine shops are six months behind. Any knowledge from any one on trust worthy shops in Denver, El Paso, Phoenix or Tucson? I live 8 years in Mexico, maybe I should look at Juarez? I’ve been sending parts to chrome platers down there with luck.

One more questions, the 200 is a direct bolt in, BUT, can 200 engine components fit in my 170 block? I get the carb.

Thanks again
JP

B RON CO · Nov 25, 2020

Hi, all the external parts will swap. Oil pump and pan, head, distributor, rocker arm shaft, pushrods, flywheel....
The 170 is more like a 144. 3 freeze out plugs and 4 main bearings.
The 200 is a different block. 5 freeze out plugs, 7 main bearings, and a bigger bore, but externally the same.
Good luck

bmbm · Nov 25, 2020

200 swap

I used a 200 from a 79 Fairmount if I remember correctly (about 20 years ago). You will need to swap the oil pan and pickup tube. If you can find a 200 in good condition it will be faster, cheaper, and better than rebuilding the 170. Just keep the 170 for later that is what I did. A 200 with larger carb hole is good because you can go with a higher cfm 1v carb and a Pertronix ignition and bump the timing up. Definitely check out fordsix.com.

reinvnt45 · Nov 25, 2020

Thank you all

Sounds like I need to find a 200 (I assume 7 bearing over four is the route to go). I will keep all updated on the process. If that is the case, I may throw the oil pan back on and drive it like I was before. I haven't driven it in less than a week and I hate walking into the garage for a beer only to see it sitting there!

Broncobowsher · Nov 25, 2020

Quick check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_straight-six_engine#170 says no go on the guts swap

As for a Phoenix/Tucson machine shop, several of us at work have been using the machine shop on the back side of Aarons auto paint shop in Casa Grande. Work is good and pricing is reasonable. It is a one man shop so it can take a few weeks, but not 6 months. Did the heads on my Y-block earlier this year.

73azbronco · Nov 26, 2020

I would worry if a machine shop said they could do it in less than 6 months.

Broncobowsher · Nov 26, 2020

73azbronco said:
I would worry if a machine shop said they could do it in less than 6 months.

Why? It's an old school rebuild. Not like you are asking for any custom made parts. It is about as basic of a rebuild as you can ask for. The biggest delay is waiting for parts to come in from a warehouse.

The machine shop I mentioned. he does work in batches. One afternoon he will sit down and do a batch of valve grinding. another day he will spend with the boring/honing doing bores. So a couple weeks to get all the parts through all the steps. But expecting more than 6 months? You have been around too many crappy machine shops if that is your expectation.

chrlsful · Nov 26, 2020

'73/4 the 3.3L WAS in the bronk.

If U find one make sure U have the rear sump pan (doesn't play well wid da frnt chunk). Vintage inlines (only PT single employee, tho)dot com, "the Handbook" (https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/the-ford-falcon-six-cylinder-performance-handbook ) and fordsix dot com - https://fordsix.com/viewforum.php?f=1
or even better
https://fordsix.com/app.php/page/archives
all great resources. Nice to see I don't get hounded off the site with i6 posts any more. Possibly this site at some time (it's own forum?) due to the extensive use in the bronk (8 yrs, 3/4 the run of EB) and more moderate modifications being done will B 2. Now the rig comands a premiem it is being offered w/the more typical classic car OEM livery. Everyone's gotta 'make it their own', that will never end 8^ )
(C my sig)
Ja move yet B Ron?

reinvnt45 · Nov 29, 2020

Quick question when block shopping (I’m new to this world). I found a 200 with 7 freeze plugs reasonably close in a city my best friend (a Chevy guy, forgive him) can visit. What should he be looking for? I’ve asked them to crack the oil pan off, he has agreed. Aside from bits and pieces, how and where should he look for block cracks, or what else should would be concerned with that we can see on the surface?

Thanks!
JP

bmbm · Nov 29, 2020

block integrity

I believe the best way is to have the block and head magnafluxed at a machine shop. The blocks often have cracks between the #3 and #4 if I remember correctly.

chrlsful · Nov 29, 2020

the 3, 4 siamesed ports on head often have acrack (in later model "large log' head. Do/Did they b cuz of crappy metal @ that point?) between. Forge weld when found w/a magna flux diagnosis or by eye...
Getting any of the 6 ThriftPower i6 motors mixed up: 'small6' 144, 170, 200...250; and 'big6' 240/300 or 4/9L. See 1st few pages of 'the Handbook" (The...Ford 6 cyl Performance Handbook) cited above w/links is good for IDing (frz plugs, H2O pump bolts, deck hight) them (& much, much more). There are break yrs @ '64, '68, and '77 for upgrades (just like the C4). And when pan is off - 'will ya just look at that' for the huge counter weights on that 170 (even comaired to the slant6's 170 or 225).

The 200/3.3 lasted almost as long (in production) as the 300/4.9 and is the rev master (I believe itsa 'square motor'). I like the 250/240/300 as they R more the tq monsters (my 250/4.1, a typical bronk conversion, has it's peek tq come on at 1500 RPM). Many race the 200 @ the mid 10 sec ina 1320 range (normally aspirated). I'd say "Not ina bronk, it's nota race car." All the i6 have incredibly stout bottom ends but top just can't breath (the 'log' intake). So:
https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/deposit-only-aluminum-head-package
was developed (is sold bya solo PT guy who gets overwhelmed by the orders. Its a mom/pop shop not TBS. Heads R poured offshore so come here in batches). I thin its ATK stopped recond the heads, they have just begun again & avail thru Jegs but at 300$ - kinda pricy.

Get 'the handbook' and U won't regret it. Wish I dropped the 300 in mine (C bronco driver & others). Big6 went efi in later yrs (bronk, F-series and even big 10,K dumps w/a Stevens or oem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh6gb7Pwsso

heavy duty ex manny (Stevens Tx is a current manufacturer) some use esp when turbo-ed:
https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=73716

enuff (too much? well, still sorta still 'on-topic'). C: https://fordsix.com/app.php/page/archives

73azbronco · Nov 29, 2020

Broncobowsher said:
Why? It's an old school rebuild. Not like you are asking for any custom made parts. It is about as basic of a rebuild as you can ask for. The biggest delay is waiting for parts to come in from a warehouse.

The machine shop I mentioned. he does work in batches. One afternoon he will sit down and do a batch of valve grinding. another day he will spend with the boring/honing doing bores. So a couple weeks to get all the parts through all the steps. But expecting more than 6 months? You have been around too many crappy machine shops if that is your expectation.

No, biggest delay is waiting for your engine to come up in line. Quality shops are booked up months in advance. You can get heads rebuilt in a week or so, but complete rebuild, months. To many crappy shops do it fast buddy. If it can get done faster great, maybe slow time for the shop. No way a reputable shop is under months, they are always booked up.

Now, you are down there in Copa and chandler so maybe different environment than Scottsdale with more motors being Lambo, Mazz, and such than chevy or Fords.

B RON CO · Nov 29, 2020

Hi, you mean 5 freeze out plugs. The block could be an older 200, Bronco style, with the high starter, or a later small block Ford style with the low starter. Beware, the 200 engine used a 3 bolt water pump, and the 250 used a 4 bolt water pump. As mentioned, the 250 is doable, but not a direct bolt on.
Personally, I would welcome the later, bigger carb opening, and the later ignition system.
Good luck

Broncobowsher · Nov 29, 2020

That is why I was pointing out a quality Arizona machine shop that does good old school work.

No reason to let the block sit for half a year in snobsdale when it doesn't need to.

reinvnt45 · Dec 6, 2020

Hola all, V8

Bought an engine in Albuquerque. From the machine shop (recommended by my neighbor, a local Ford guy who owns a 1970 - 429 cobra jet boss mustang, f100 he had this machine shop machine a 428 that he rebuilt and dropped in, and then there is his “daily driver”, he passes my house every Friday in his Mercury eliminator cougar; you're catching my theme - his only downfall.....he hasn’t built a small block in a while) , gave me the information to his machine shop. The owner guaranteed the motor, money back if rotten.

Questions,
1. C8DE cast number (new motor) will bolt directly to my (I guess what my vin shows is a) C3 - three on the tree tranny. Also, is this rare, manifold on new motor is a C7....vin.
2. My 170 oil pan has dip stick in the pan (passenger side). Motor I got has dip stick in the block (driver side) with a mustang front sump pan. Can I still use my 170 oil pan? If not, where do I find a rear sump oil pan for a C8DE block?
3. How do I know if I have a 9 inch fly wheel?
4. My starter appears to be a two bolt. Will this work?

Thank you so much! I wanna confirm all of this before we tear down and send back to the shop. It is a local shop, the guy is a Ford guy, I’ve been in the shop and he’s been doing this for about 45 years. He did do a similar swap to a 1st gen bronco in 1978 for his boss where they took a 170 and put a late 60s 200 in a bronco. The old man did call my 170 gutless which was a little offensive but I got over it. I believe a 67-68 in-line 200 will work much better than a 69. As I’m able to give a little more info and detail I really appreciate any feedback. If anyone wants any block numbers or anything else more than happy to send you. I’ve been told a 200 post 65 has both bolt patterns for a 9 inch bell housing.

Thanks

JP

B RON CO · Dec 7, 2020

Hi, the casting #s you have indicate the block is a 1968, C8..., and the head is from 1967, C7..., so they will work for you. It is possible the head came with the block but it is probable that the engine had a valve job and the original head was just swapped for a rebuilt one.
If there is any difference in the flex plates use the one from the Bronco.
You must use the Bronco oil pan and pickup tube, and the special pickup mounting bolt.
If you want to use the original carb make sure it fits on the C7 head, or let the machine shop rebuild the original head.
I would get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook and come up with a plan to improve the performance while keeping a stock look.
The 67 probably had the later (much better) distributor, and that does not work with the early carb without modification.
I would also keep the Bronco adjustable rocker arm shaft and push rods, and get a better hydraulic cam and lifters.
Good luck

chrlsful · Dec 7, 2020

B Ron's got it !

This 'ford guy' shop does not mean he knows the ThriftPower motors (any of the 6).
https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/the-ford-falcon-six-cylinder-performance-handbook
BTW: The '68 + (not '67) is the break for the LOM/SCV change. (easily updated to '77+ DSII, performance carb). Again C 'Handbook".
Pan: 144, 170, 200 all swap (car to bronk & w/each other as with @ rails is same). In '82 when I got mine it (170/2.8) had 2 dip sticks. After 10 yrs ownership the OP musta blown the motor and swapped in a 'car' motor, kept the bronk pan as a frnt sump does not play well w/a frnt chunk (4WD).
As stated earlier: the 200 DID come in the bronk '73/4. To me it's a st only take on a multipurpose vehicle. 250/300 is the 1 to have, the wrk I did, the weight difference? wish I did the 300/4.9 efi (an '80s - '96, even from a FSB) and ZF S5-42 or 7 (both w/2 PTOs) or the NV I did use...

170 cu in rebuild kit

Jr. Member

Total hack

Bronco Guru

Jr. Member

Bronco Guru

Sr. Member

Jr. Member

Total hack

Bronco Guru

Total hack

Bronco Guru

Jr. Member

Sr. Member

Bronco Guru

Bronco Guru

Bronco Guru

Total hack

Jr. Member

Bronco Guru

Bronco Guru

Similar threads