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Opinions / guidance on best options for this barn find...

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Agree with the others. For disc brake swaps to be an issue, the rest of the truck's original parts would need to be in much better shape and not need replacing themselves.
Originality only adds value when it's in good shape.
For now, new paint still sells more than original, except in very few special instances.

For brakes, I can attest to the fact that the drum brakes on these things can work well. If you don't mind spending half your life fiddling with them that is!
Oh, and if you don't plan on loading it up for a weekends worth of fun and driving up and down hills. In that case, toss the front drums out right away!

I drove my '71 for 10 years or so as a daily driver with the stock "big" brakes. Never had an issue locking up the tires or stopping as expected. And because I tweaked with the adjustments about every other week or so, even panic stops left me stopping straight and clean.
Not so much straight and clean if you don't keep them adjusted down to a fine art.

With your rig as far as I can see in the pics, you're not going to be leaving much original I'm afraid. So screw the drums, and just add discs!

If you're really concerned about future value, keep the old parts in a box in a corner and give them to the next owner at the time of the sale. There is nothing that says you can't just put them on for a future sale. The only non-reversible mod regarding the brakes is the grinding you will have to do on the knuckle. I don't know how much a Dana 44 knuckle needs to be ground compared to a Dana 30, but in a pinch you could simply replace the ground down disc-compatible knuckles with unmolested ones.
But I don't know of anyone that's going to pay more for stock drum brakes yet.

Eventually, when Broncos are so valuable that they don't even get driven to car shows and every original piece adds value, that may be the case. But until then, make it a better vehicle to drive.
And besides, like I said, yours is not going to be anywhere near original when you've replaced all the tired old worn out pieces.
If you really think that original sells, you should re-sell it right now. But I'm pretty sure that what sells a Bronco right now, is new paint, new parts, new engines, new bits-n-pieces, and better road manners and a better driving experience.
Whether it's a profitable endeavor or not, depends on how much you do yourself.
Heck, I bet it'd be more valuable if you added the Ranger stripes back! It would be less original, but better looking and appear more valuable as an obvious Ranger.

For those few EB's where originality counts, you need to start with a Bronco where all those original bits are still in good condition. Yours is just crying out for a restore.
Even if it's original paint and your painter can match the new body parts with the old paint (my '68 was done that way and it's cool), you're still going to have all those new parts replacing old.

Paul
 

Slowleak

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
3,732
Loc.
Georgia
That looks like a repaint to me. The upclose photo of the tire carrier mount shows a different shade of yellow where paint is chipped around the bolts and above the tail light. Same thing in the photo of the drivers rear corner.

You have a good candidate for a full restoration. It may be all original and unmodified, but there is little that does not need attention from the door handles down. At this point it’s originality is adding nothing to the value.

I would get it running and driving, and start nipping away at repairs. Document everything with photos, and save all the parts. As you get further into it you can decide how far into a restoration you are willing to go.
 
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ekarlberg

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
25
Loc.
Denver, CO
Well, this is really great feedback, everyone - thank you very much for taking the time to explain your perspectives on this. I guess I was unreasonably hoping that there would be a way to keep it original, but I must concede that there is a lot wrong with it. I think at this point, I need to get through the engine challenges first. I'll see how it runs and get the fuel issues worked out. I can spend a couple of bucks to rebuild the wheel cylinders and get the drum brakes working safely just for now. Address the front suspension, and then I should be able to drive it. Well, actually, I gotta pull the steering wheel to fix the directional / flasher switch and the shift collar, too. Geez - things never end :). It'll be cool to have it on the road in it's current condition, but looks like I will figure out restore options. That is probably out of my league, so I will have to make decisions then on selling or putting the cash into a restore.

Anyway, thank you all again, and I will keep updates on this thread (if that is appropriate forum rules) as I knock things off the list.
 

DirtDonk

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Messages
47,345
No problem coming back and updating a thread. In fact it's encouraged heavily!;D
The more pics the better, the more details the better, and the more resolutions to issues the better too.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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ekarlberg

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
25
Loc.
Denver, CO
Well, ok, here is a quick update. Not surprisingly, the more I worked on this thing, the more issues I found. The wiring is all buggered up. Looks like someone tried to work on it in the past and there were disconnected wires, poorly taped wires, etc. Had to go through it all to get the dash lights and gauges to work. Also needed to removed the steering wheel to fix the directional switch, which is broken, and to get at the shift collar. It was broken along with the shift tube, which had a broken tab that connects to the shift collar to select gears. Replaced the light switch, headlight dimmer switch, and some springs and small parts that were missing for the horn ring. Also, the voltage regulator mounted on the instrument cluster was bad. It reduces 12V to a pulsing 5V for the gauges. Just a tiny thing but it costs $50. It disables the starting solenoid which along with the neutral safety switch prevents the engine from starting. Put in a new water pump - big problems with that. It has been changed before and whoever did it left 2 broken bolts in the engine block and just loaded the replacement pump with gasket cement. Spent all day drilling out the bolts. I had to pull the radiator to have room to use a drill. Changed the hoses while I was at it. Bled and adjusted all 4 wheels. Sitting so long some of the fluid evaporated. Worked on that for a change of direction and they are all good now. Will leave that alone until I get further with everything else and then look at the upgrade to discs. The bad part, and it seems there is always a bad part, while adjusting the rear brakes I discovered why the driveshaft was removed. The differential is trash. Way too much play and a grinding noise when turning the drive yoke. But I will post about that on the Tech Forum.

Good news, is that I got the engine cranking and running (just ran a hose to a gas can) and it sounds great. Starts right up, no knocking or pinging. Whew. Debating now about trying to clean the gas tank or just spend the money on a new one. I'll post that question on the Tech Forum with some pictures of the inside of the tank - hoping to get advice on how to clean it if possible.

I think that is it. Next steps will be to address the gas tank, rear differential, and then the transmission (only goes into park and reverse).
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Thanks for the update. Sorry it just keeps on giving you new hurdles, but at least you got some of them out of the way so they don't keep throwing their crap at you.

You're finding now what we found long ago when purchasing old Broncos. And that's that at least five out of every ten Bronco PO's must have thought they were absolute wiring gurus(!) to have dove into picking apart the wiring for one reason or another until just about nothing worked correctly anymore!
We ran into that a lot more years ago, but now with deeper and deeper finds that have not been touched in awhile, that pattern is starting to rear it's ugly head again.
Oh joy...

The good news about the rear diff though, is that it's relatively easy to work on (as diffs go anyway) and it forces you to look at the rear wheel bearings. Which also rarely get serviced in time.
So look on the bright side...;)%);D

Paul
 

okie4570

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Bronco Guru
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Jul 16, 2012
Messages
9,227
Loc.
NW OK
Well, ok, here is a quick update. Not surprisingly, the more I worked on this thing, the more issues I found. The wiring is all buggered up. Looks like someone tried to work on it in the past and there were disconnected wires, poorly taped wires, etc. Had to go through it all to get the dash lights and gauges to work. Also needed to removed the steering wheel to fix the directional switch, which is broken, and to get at the shift collar. It was broken along with the shift tube, which had a broken tab that connects to the shift collar to select gears. Replaced the light switch, headlight dimmer switch, and some springs and small parts that were missing for the horn ring. Also, the voltage regulator mounted on the instrument cluster was bad. It reduces 12V to a pulsing 5V for the gauges. Just a tiny thing but it costs $50. It disables the starting solenoid which along with the neutral safety switch prevents the engine from starting. Put in a new water pump - big problems with that. It has been changed before and whoever did it left 2 broken bolts in the engine block and just loaded the replacement pump with gasket cement. Spent all day drilling out the bolts. I had to pull the radiator to have room to use a drill. Changed the hoses while I was at it. Bled and adjusted all 4 wheels. Sitting so long some of the fluid evaporated. Worked on that for a change of direction and they are all good now. Will leave that alone until I get further with everything else and then look at the upgrade to discs. The bad part, and it seems there is always a bad part, while adjusting the rear brakes I discovered why the driveshaft was removed. The differential is trash. Way too much play and a grinding noise when turning the drive yoke. But I will post about that on the Tech Forum.

Good news, is that I got the engine cranking and running (just ran a hose to a gas can) and it sounds great. Starts right up, no knocking or pinging. Whew. Debating now about trying to clean the gas tank or just spend the money on a new one. I'll post that question on the Tech Forum with some pictures of the inside of the tank - hoping to get advice on how to clean it if possible.

I think that is it. Next steps will be to address the gas tank, rear differential, and then the transmission (only goes into park and reverse).

Almost all of us here have been in your shoes, at LEAST once, most more than that lol. Buy a new fuel tank, it's well worth imo. Like Donk said, the rear end is easy. I hate electrical, so congrats on getting that problem behind you.
 

67RT

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Almost all of us here have been in your shoes, at LEAST once, most more than that lol. Buy a new fuel tank, it's well worth imo. Like Donk said, the rear end is easy. I hate electrical, so congrats on getting that problem behind you.
And if you clean the carb and replace the tank and fuel lines, either replace or bypass the aux tank as one day you will accidentally switch it on and roast the carb.

I would pull the carpet and ride bare floored to prevent rust until you can get the cabin sealed well.

Do mechanical resto and drive it. You will never enjoy that truck if you rip it apart.
 
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ekarlberg

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
25
Loc.
Denver, CO
Well, it sounds like I am not the only one to go through this stuff. And really, I guess it could be a lot worse. So, I will focus on the following so I can get out and actually drive it someday:
- I am going to replace the gas tank. I don't want to deal with trying to save it and have it come back and bite me later. I will bypass the aux tank, too, so I don't make the bad error of switching it by accident.
- Rear diff. I guess I will just have to dig in and see what is going on. But, shouldn't take me long to pull off the wheels, remove some bolts, and pull the axles. Then I can see what is going on once I get the carrier off.

I will post another update once I get to that point. If I get that addressed, it will be on to the transmission to figure out why I can't get it into any other gear but Park and Reverse...
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Messages
47,345
And if you clean the carb and replace the tank and fuel lines, either replace or bypass the aux tank as one day you will accidentally switch it on and roast the carb.

I will bypass the aux tank, too, so I don't make the bad error of switching it by accident.

I'm not sure what you're speaking of RT. What do you mean by using the aux tank will roast the carb? Never had an issue with mine, and if it was some kind of danger Ford would never have plumbed in two tanks from the factory.

Curious what the issue is that you're talking about.

- Rear diff. I guess I will just have to dig in and see what is going on. But, shouldn't take me long to pull off the wheels, remove some bolts, and pull the axles.

Good plan. But the "shouldn't take me long" part is more in the line of "famous last words" too!;D
Actually, in theory you're correct. Should be relatively easy. The tech is simple, but sometimes after all these years at least one of the bearings will decide it really likes where it is and does not want to let go of the outer housing end. Lots of us have had to deal with that.
Sometimes they pop right out then, and sometimes you have to work at it.

In my case, one side came right off in a couple of minutes. The other side? Not so much...
Took most of the day until I got a slide-hammer to use!

Have fun.

Paul
 
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ekarlberg

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May 15, 2018
Messages
25
Loc.
Denver, CO
I'm not sure what you're speaking of RT. What do you mean by using the aux tank will roast the carb? Never had an issue with mine, and if it was some kind of danger Ford would never have plumbed in two tanks from the factory.

Curious what the issue is that you're talking about.



Good plan. But the "shouldn't take me long" part is more in the line of "famous last words" too!;D
Actually, in theory you're correct. Should be relatively easy. The tech is simple, but sometimes after all these years at least one of the bearings will decide it really likes where it is and does not want to let go of the outer housing end. Lots of us have had to deal with that.
Sometimes they pop right out then, and sometimes you have to work at it.

In my case, one side came right off in a couple of minutes. The other side? Not so much...
Took most of the day until I got a slide-hammer to use!

Have fun.

Paul

I think RT was referring to my aux tank being all gummed up, too. I am only replacing the main tank for now. Is that the wrong approach? Any benefit to addressing the aux too at the same time?

Yes - I always underestimate the time it takes for things as well as the uncovering of more issues. I am definitely getting a slide-hammer from O'Reilly before I start.

I'll post any lessons learned as I go.
 

DirtDonk

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Messages
47,345
Nothing I can think of that dictates you do them both at the same time. Either way would work.
Other than it being one of those things that fall into the old "I'll get to it later" pit of doom!;D

Paul
 
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ekarlberg

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May 15, 2018
Messages
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Loc.
Denver, CO
Well, I ended up getting the new tank in and kept the old strap. It wasn't an exact match in size, so I had to finagle the strap a little, but got it on. It starts up right away first try now and sounds really great. No knocks or ticks, but I hear a little "spark" noise that I suspect could be the plug wires. I will put new ones on. But I am very pleased that I am past the engine issues (hopefully) and can move on to the other things.

Next is the rear diff to see what is going on there. Hopefully it will be as easy as I hope, but that has not been the case so far. After that I deal with the most major issue yet - the transmission. Took of the pan and drained it and out came pieces of a broken cront band. No idea how you brake a front band, but nothing surprises me with this thing now. Since I am working on this thing in my garage on my back, I think this is going to be a tough one for me. I guess I will have to remove the vacuum lines, the exhaust, coolant lines, etc just to get it out. Plus, not sure what happened to this thing in the past, but everything is covered with grease and oil and gunk - probably from some past engine issue. Part of me wants to trailer it to a transmission shop and just pay the money to have an expert give it a rebuild. Any thoughts on upgrading the transmission? I hear people sometimes go to an AOD or a C6 - is it worth it?

The front drive shaft is gone, but Melissa over at the Bronco Hut has a good source, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. If I get past the diff and the trans I will finally be able to drive this which will feel really good. Still have to get new shocks and deal with the disc brake conversion, but I can enjoy it around the neighborhood until I tackle those things.
 

DirtDonk

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...Hopefully it will be as easy as I hope, but that has not been the case so far.

Probably! Seems that the center chunk comes out relatively easy, but the bit that gives most of us trouble is there is always one wheel bearing that does not want to let go of it's purchase in the axle housing.
And since you have to get the shafts out before the center section, and you likely have to change the bearings this go-round anyway, you gotta fight it no matter what.

A lot of threads here about how one axle comes out without much of a fight, but the other one won't come out no matter what you try. Until you break out the slide hammer that is.
So if one gives you any grief, after you spray it with penetrating lube, run on down to the parts store that has loaner tools and grab an appropriate sized slide-hammer.

Any thoughts on upgrading the transmission? I hear people sometimes go to an AOD or a C6 - is it worth it?

Not even in the same league actually. Almost nobody does a C6, but many of us do one or the other transmissions in the AOD family (mostly the last iteration in the form of a 4R70W).
The C6 is stronger than the C4, but large enough to be a hassle in other ways, harder to find sometimes with the 302 bolt pattern (but not that hard I don't think) and you still don't have an overdrive. So if overdrive is wanted, ignore the old-school C6 and go straight to the later model trans.
Or unless you're just looking for beef because you're going to be abusive to it with a powerful engine and a heavy right foot? And even then, I'm not sure the C6 is any stronger than a well built 4R70 or when used with the proper rear end ratio to keep the stresses at the axle shafts instead of up front in the transmission.
And an overdrive gives you the advantage of being able to choose a lower gear ratio for the differentials anyway.

AOD is the simplest, with no electronic controls to worry about, but is considered the least desirable simply because it's not as strong or well put together as the later versions. But it was fine from the factory for years, and if you're not beating on your rig with bigger tires and poor gear ratio choices, even an AOD should work well.
For the 4R70's you need some sort of electronic controller to keep it functioning. Those of us with full Explorer engine controls have that control built right into the computer however.

...and deal with the disc brake conversion, but I can enjoy it around the neighborhood until I tackle those things.

If the drum brakes are working well enough for the neighborhood, they'll work well enough to really get out and drive it.
Unless you're not comfortable with driving on old drum brakes, or keeping them adjusted, they were fine for many years on Broncos before we started swapping in the admittedly better all around disc setups. But they still worked.
Have you been able to pull your drums off at any point yet to check their condition? If not, at least you'll be checking your rears soon enough to pull the diff apart.
Hopefully they're in good enough shape to get you back on the road for now.

Making progress!

Paul
 

sprdv1

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REBEL
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Messages
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You’ll get there. One thing at a time. ;)

Well, I ended up getting the new tank in and kept the old strap. It wasn't an exact match in size, so I had to finagle the strap a little, but got it on. It starts up right away first try now and sounds really great. No knocks or ticks, but I hear a little "spark" noise that I suspect could be the plug wires. I will put new ones on. But I am very pleased that I am past the engine issues (hopefully) and can move on to the other things.

Next is the rear diff to see what is going on there. Hopefully it will be as easy as I hope, but that has not been the case so far. After that I deal with the most major issue yet - the transmission. Took of the pan and drained it and out came pieces of a broken cront band. No idea how you brake a front band, but nothing surprises me with this thing now. Since I am working on this thing in my garage on my back, I think this is going to be a tough one for me. I guess I will have to remove the vacuum lines, the exhaust, coolant lines, etc just to get it out. Plus, not sure what happened to this thing in the past, but everything is covered with grease and oil and gunk - probably from some past engine issue. Part of me wants to trailer it to a transmission shop and just pay the money to have an expert give it a rebuild. Any thoughts on upgrading the transmission? I hear people sometimes go to an AOD or a C6 - is it worth it?

The front drive shaft is gone, but Melissa over at the Bronco Hut has a good source, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. If I get past the diff and the trans I will finally be able to drive this which will feel really good. Still have to get new shocks and deal with the disc brake conversion, but I can enjoy it around the neighborhood until I tackle those things.
 
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ekarlberg

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May 15, 2018
Messages
25
Loc.
Denver, CO
Update - it's been a long time coming :)

OK, well, I haven't posted an update about this in a long while. Mainly, I ran into a number of issues that were unexpected (even though I am learning to expect anything now) and other life situations taking up some time. But, here is a summary of what has been done since my last post (in no particular order):

- Replaced driver's side window glass
- replaced main gas tank and all the fuel lines up to the carb
- rebuilt carb
- new brakes and flushed and bled lines
- new battery
- new valve cover gaskets
- new water pump and radiator hoses
- replaced on missing radio knob and the passenger window crank knob

Now the big stuff:

- Had to take it over to Eagle Transmission in Parker, Colorado, to rebuild the transmission. Ended up having them remove, disassemble, and rebuild the transmission. Also addressed the transfer case and re-seal front and back.
- Installed a new drive shaft )was missing before)

The good news, is I have finally been able to actually drive it! Now the motor purrs like a kitten with no knock, ticks, etc. Perfect idle. Starts on first crank. How great it felt to take it around the block - it was a lot of headaches and questioning whether or not to keep going, but it is great to get a feel of what it could be like with some more updating. It definitely needs some new shocks, but still felt great to be moving down the road in it.

So, it still means I am at a crossroads of sorts. That is, now that it is good in terms of the engine and drive train, do I continue on with the other issues or consider handing it off to someone else that is looking for a restoration candidate? As I mentioned before, it's original(ish) condition is what appealed to me. But, in order to take it to the next level, and be paint ready, it is going to need some work. Plus, it'll need an interior as well.

So, to give you an idea of current status, I am posting some pictures. I am not sure how that will work, so I may need to do multiple posts since I have a lot to show. I'd love to hear thoughts on estimated value, what order to do next things if we keep it, where to post it if we want to sell it, etc. Thanks again to everyone's feedback so far - it has made this process a lot easier than without it!
 

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ekarlberg

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May 15, 2018
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More pictures

More pics...
 

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ekarlberg

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Denver, CO
More pics of exterior and undercarriage and fender wells

Couple more pics of exterior and undercarriage, fender wells, and door posts and areas...
 

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ekarlberg

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Denver, CO
More of exterior, underneath, etc
 

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ekarlberg

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Pics of the dash area

Pics of the dash area. All original and working electronics and switches, etc. Dash pad itself is cracked and old and would need to be covered or ideally replaced.
 

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