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Selling titles and glove box doors

Hozr

Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
1,434
Loc.
Oly, WA
BE VERY CAREFUL HERE.

VIN and title issues are a state by state issue and there is no correct blanket answer. I know in California it is 100% ILLEGAL. My friend spent a weekend in jail for Title Fraud for purchasing a mustang vin tag/title from out of state. Yes you read the right, he was arrested on a NO BOND bench warrant while traveling with his father back from Mexico for Christmas. The initial fine was upwards of $50,000 and was reduced down to $5,000. Unfortunately he was detained on a friday afternoon and spent the weekend in jail before he could stand in front of a judge.

For more juicy reading google Titles Unlimited
 

Crawdad

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
3,635
I've written endless amounts of stuff about this same subject. Every state is different, that's a fact. Not every state follows their required protocol on checking VINs. I got burned on an outofstate 72 bronco with the "3 matching numbers" about two years ago. I must have gotten the DMV nazi bc she pulled out the same schematics that show VIN locations that we see on this website. I told her I have the glovebox (GB) and matching title but not the frame at moment. She said the GB door VIN is a temp tag and not the official VIN. She said if the frames VIN doesn't match the title that SC DMV will not transfer ownership to my name. She also threw out there that if my frame had a different VIN and if it came up stolen that there would be serious ramifications. Again, I got the nazi of DMV employees. No biggie, right?!!! I went back home to retrieve my 72 bronco to take back to her. First I needed to look for the VIN on the frame. Fairly easy to find since it was caked up a lil bit with oil and grime. Just my luck it didn't match. Chit! Well I'm not gonna take it to her to run the numbers, so what did I do. Let's try and co tact the fella who sold it to me. I've made several attempts and still refuses to return my msges. Till this day, he still sells bronco parts in GA. It's water under the bridge for me now as he gave me a great deal. But you better believe I educated myself on this subject of official VINs and their matching titles. I searched out for a legit bare frame, GB and matching title. Took a while but some good bronco buddies up in Greenwood SC found and sold me what is now my 77 bronco build. But even my 77 frame and title came from New Jersey. Took the 77 frame only down to the nazi to visually inspect and she happily gave me a title in my name. I soon found out that I can get a Marti Report and request all new temp VINs for the GB door. So eventually I will go that route in due time. One thing is for sure, I will not have any concerns if and when I decide to sell my 77 with or with out a GB door in place. Anyone wanting to invest in one of the EBs need to educate themselves bc there is a lot loose with lots of legal issues if done incorrectly. You want a high return on your investment, make sure the title matches you frames VIN. It's becoming rare to find these two items together.
 

67RT

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Despite all of the fear and doom and gloom, somebody on here will want this from you.

Besides, if it's mounted to one of those new tubular frames, is it then titled as a kit car?

I'm thinking if this is of great concern, perhaps a new forum policy should be enacted for members selling Broncos on here, a note regarding whether or not it's frame and vin matching.

In MD it would need an inspection and get a state issued VIN to be legit. Like I said, you can take a title to the MVA without an inspection if you get historic tags, but it is not legit if questions arise...
 

ghundt

New Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
15
When I was restoring my bronco, I removed the dash completely and replaced with a new dash without the glove box, When I went to register it in Idaho a state inspector came out and told me that it is actually illegal to remove the vin number even attached to the glove box door, I told Him I did not remove the vin number just the door, He laughed but ran the frame number etc and ended up issuing me a new title and vin number and put the new vin number on the firewall as I have no glove box and with door inserts no way to look at the door jam.
 

WheelHorse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
2,491
So if the frame has enough surface rust over where the vin would be, does the state determine the rig isn't road worthy? Do they make you go home and do your best to sand it and hope it's there or readable?
 

WheelHorse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
2,491
In MD it would need an inspection and get a state issued VIN to be legit. Like I said, you can take a title to the MVA without an inspection if you get historic tags, but it is not legit if questions arise...

What questions would those be?

If the title is clean, and you can't read a vin on the frame, what else is there to do and or question?
 

Hozr

Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
1,434
Loc.
Oly, WA
If the title is clean, and you can't read a vin on the frame, what else is there to do and or question?

Depends on the state. In Washington anything that comes up as a questionable title must have a new VIN issued and the vehicle/trailer CAN NOT be used on the road for three years. That's right, you get a vin and pay the fees then have to sit on it for THREE years in case anything or anyone wants to claim ownership or dispute it.

Other states are more harsh. California has been known to seize and destroy vehicles with questionable VIN numbers as have other states.

Be prepared and know YOUR states laws.
 

76Broncofromhell

Bronco Totalitarian
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
4,226
Loc.
Reno, NV
In CA, the firewall physically defines a "car." Engine IDs and frame IDs are not logged in any state database. Broncos are unique insofar as they do not attach the VIN plate to the firewall or windshield frame. So if you do not physically swap the firewall you are technically in violation of the law. It's pretty hard to tell if you've done that in CA; however.

I've had to get VINs checked at the DMV a few times (6 plus years out of the system means you have to get the VIN rechecked by the DMV or Police) and it was pretty straight forward. The Sheriff checked my glovebox door VIN and ran the numbers to make sure nothing was afoul, then signed the paperwork and I was on my way.

Bottom line, check the laws in your state.
 

67RT

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
What questions would those be?

If the title is clean, and you can't read a vin on the frame, what else is there to do and or question?

When I was there a dude was trying to register a Factory Five kit car that was amazing.
https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/
The problem was it used extensive GM parts (Z06 motor, porche transaxle, etc.), all with different VINS. They had to run all and get a BOS for all with ID numbers. It was his third time back.

My understanding is if there is no frame VIN, they inspect and if all other things check out (any VINS on box door/motor/etc. come back clean), they will issue a state VIN plate.

They screwed mine to the door jamb. I had the Marti tab and they would not allow it on. Apparently they are getting a new VIN tag machine that can duplicate the actual VIN on the frame, but for now they just issued a sequential state VIN number. I gave that to my insurance company and now am happy that both VINS are clean and neither are duplicate registrations.
 

67RT

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
All two of them? I'm sure they are all sold under the table with no receipt either.

Just because someone makes something doesn't mean it complies with local regs. I can put a new frame on my truck, but I would just have to get it inspected and titled..
 

WheelHorse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
2,491
So what we need are the dies to stamp the vin in :eek:

China would make that for us.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,834
Bought a new frame from Ford for an F250. It was a service part. I don't recall and VIN stamped into it. And there was no paperwork with them to indicate anything regarding any serial number. Just a receipt with a part number on it.
 

TwoDalesDad

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
1,515
I bought a bronco years back that had some history to it. This was before the internet, Back when the Auto-trader was in it's hey-day. The bronco I bought had just come home after a seven year disappearing act. The bronco was very colorful to start with. Red door,Blue fenders, White hood...( the one in question may have been different colors) Its been a long time ago. So, As I start asking questions The Owner states..Oh I just picked it up from the CHP...They recovered it at the home of a car-thief who did way too many drugs...He went on to tell me how he had placed an add in the trader, and the very first person who saw it, turned out to be the thief who stole it. He stated that the only parts on the bronco that were his were the GLOVE-BOX DOOR, and the HOOD. He stated that he had no title yet, but The CHP said 60 days, and he would be legal again. The deal went south when I had waited 4 months...NO TITLE YET...I did get my moneys back from him...BUT I spent alot of time moving parts back and forth..
 

turbotim2

____________
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Messages
1,954
You guys are looking too far down the road. It doesn't matter what state does what at the time of registration and titling of this VIN you've purchased. The illegal act is removing the VIN from the original vehicle it was stamped with. It is a felony. Punishable by jail time and up to $10,000 in fines. This is a federal law that the states can not choose to ignore or weaken (they can be more stringent).

So if by your good nature and intention you hope to keep a Bronco that was destined for the crusher on the road by providing someone a VIN and title, keep in mind that that unscroupulous buyer may be using it to steal a Bronco. And if and when they get caught they will trace the transaction back to you. So good luck with that.
 

67RT

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
You guys are looking too far down the road. It doesn't matter what state does what at the time of registration and titling of this VIN you've purchased. The illegal act is removing the VIN from the original vehicle it was stamped with. It is a felony. Punishable by jail time and up to $10,000 in fines. This is a federal law that the states can not choose to ignore or weaken (they can be more stringent).

So if by your good nature and intention you hope to keep a Bronco that was destined for the crusher on the road by providing someone a VIN and title, keep in mind that that unscroupulous buyer may be using it to steal a Bronco. And if and when they get caught they will trace the transaction back to you. So good luck with that.

I am in full agreement that it is too easy to hide a hot Bronco in states like mine that do not require an inspection on historic vehicles. All you need is a title.
 

WheelHorse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
2,491
I am in full agreement that it is too easy to hide a hot Bronco in states like mine that do not require an inspection on historic vehicles. All you need is a title.

Especially because these old boxes of rust are so low tech when it comes to thieves. No individual vin stamping on each and every part, so they could go anywhere.. AHHHHHH think I will sell mine now and get a new vehicle with vin numbers all over it. haha not.
 

67RT

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
1,308
Especially because these old boxes of rust are so low tech when it comes to thieves. No individual vin stamping on each and every part, so they could go anywhere.. AHHHHHH think I will sell mine now and get a new vehicle with vin numbers all over it. haha not.

I know. I started mine this weekend and the keychain fell out of the ignition. Oops. I turned it off, stuck in my master padlock key and started it! Oh no..
 
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