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WhatÂ’s a title worth?

thegreatjustino

Contributor
Red Head Grease Monkey
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
15,624
Loc.
Stockton, CA
Just curious, has anyone ever actually seen someone from the DMV climb under a car and look at the frame?

The three vehicles I've bought out of state and had shipped to CA needed to have a VIN inspection done. In order to do this, you either have to bring the vehicle to DMV for the inspection or have an authorized law enforcement officer or independent DMV consultant do the inspection and fill out the paperwork.

I've never taken an out of state vehicle to the DMV for inspection, but have had both law enforcement and an independent DMV consultant do the inspections. In all three cases, the would only do the paperwork after they verified the VINs on the frames. They would not use the glove box tag or the door jamb sticker. It had to be stamped on the frame of the vehicle.

Whether the CA DMV jackoffs would be that strict, I don't know, but as has been said, with varying degrees of inspections in different states, I wouldn't want to be caught with my pants down - as the buyer, seller, or owner.
 

ngsd

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
2,531
If you cut the vin and welded into the new frame ...after its powder coated or painted.....would anyone know?

Ask yourself the question, "would I tell the buyer or conceal it" That should be enough. asking if anyone would know would be deceiving in my opinion.
 

mebco09

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
460
Depending on where you read about it, Icon replaces the original frame with and Art Morrison frame or "reworks" the original frame with Art Morrison components. How much of the old frame are they actually using? You can see here that they are using an original VIN#.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2019-icon-autotype-icon-br-old-school-66/


That's interesting. They must destroy the original frame.

For $250k, I wouldn't want some dildo from the DMV crawling over my ICON, looking for a frame stamp that isn't there.
 

chuck1022

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
562
Ask yourself the question, "would I tell the buyer or conceal it" That should be enough. asking if anyone would know would be deceiving in my opinion.

......from a selling it standpoint...yes. but I never sell anything so I would have to live with that secret for the rest of my life
 

ngsd

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
2,531
A lot of custom frame builders supply a certificate of origin so it can legally be titled as a kit car custom. When big dollars are involved they often want it be be an original VIN so they play the games.
 

Lawndart

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
836
Loc.
66030
Don't come to Kansas....They will inspect every inch of it...especially if it is coming from out of state.
- or outta country... Yeppers; especially the Olathe station.
I've had some very uniques vehicles. They once threatened me with mail fraud and jail time... %):cool:
 

Waldo

Contributor
Jr. Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
79
In MD they don't even look at the car. In the past 3 years I registered/titled a 83 Pininfarina (from DE) and a 92 VW (from Ohio) before I even had the cars in the state. Didn't even have to show them a picture of the vehicle.
 

msmith

Full Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
209
In Montana:
1) use the title for the donor frame. 2) Titled as a kit car, with VIN assigned by DMV.

Edit: in the case of #2 you could probably get away with using the body vin as long as you had the correct title to match the body. IF starting with no title, an assigned VIN will be necessary as they will check the frame for anything that is not already titled.

Same in West Virginia.
 

1sicbronconut

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
2,422
Just curious, has anyone ever actually seen someone from the DMV climb under a car and look at the frame?

Yes when I bought a Bronco in Colorado when I lived in New Mexico the State Trooper who had the duty that day crawled underneath with a wire brush to clean off the vin area to verify the #
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,796
To do a vin swap right, you need to get with DMV and see what they say, most likely, a DMV awarded VIN with a sticker for the frame, legal, easy, no big deal to a guy just wanting a bronco at whatever price. Think of it like this, does ICON use an old vin? Not to my knowledge.

While the guy on the street would probably care less, I think you only see money issues if a collector walks knowing it's a repaired vin. Otherwise, a DMV replacement vin is just fine.

Now, weld a vin from another frame onto a new frame, and get ready to be suite mates with Vinny at the State Pen.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,796
If you cut the vin and welded into the new frame ...after its powder coated or painted.....would anyone know?

Would anyone know you picked up a six pack and hid it in your coat as you walked out of the store?

Maybe, but if they do, it gets expensive fast.
 
OP
OP
M

MN 66 Roadster

New Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
2
I didn’t know there was a VIN on the frame. Was it there on the early 66 I restored? If it was I sanded, primed and painted right over it. Where specifically would I find it? I understand now that the frame defines the vehicle. I would have to start with a new frame if I buy the rusty 68 I’m looking at. Here in MN nobody looks at the vehicle so I don’t think there is an issue with registration. But my main concern is the cost of the project. I put about 25k in the 66 U13 doing EVERYTHING myself. I could see that doubling on the rusty 68. At that point I’m hiring an attorney to represent me in the divorce proceedings. So I probably need to look for something better to work on.
 

chuck1022

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
562
Would anyone know you picked up a six pack and hid it in your coat as you walked out of the store?

Maybe, but if they do, it gets expensive fast.

I guess the more appropriate analogy would be........would anyone know if I switched the Fanta orange upc with with the sunkist orange upc. I make all my life decisions with Fanta analogies. I have seen the error of my ways.
 

chuck1022

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
562
I plan on buying a Kincer or krawlers edge frame and building a rig. My plan was to buy a 66 title so its a 1966.

Now if i sold it....that could get wonky....cause its not the orig frame.

But I hoard things
 

mebco09

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
460
I understand now that the frame defines the vehicle.

How many Broncos (and other rigs for that matter) had swaps done before any of this was common knowledge?

25 or 30 years ago, pre-internet, if I have a Bronco with a sticker on the door pillar or a data plate in the glove box that matches the title, I'm not going to think twice about what may or may not be on the frame.
 

sprdv1

Contributor
REBEL
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
81,734
My EB experience is limited to a frame-off restoration of a 66 Roadster, recently completed. I’m interested in another project and recently looked at a 68 Wagon here in Minnesota. It was very rusty. Frame was not repairable IMO. Floor, rockers, fenders were shot. I completed some rust repair on the 66 but feel this tub beyond repair. The owner has All the original sales paperwork and manuals along with the clean title. But it’s a title to a vehicle that’s rusted away. So what’s a EB title worth?

Welcome aboard!! You found the right spot for all things Classic EB
 

sprdv1

Contributor
REBEL
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
81,734
I didn’t know there was a VIN on the frame. Was it there on the early 66 I restored? If it was I sanded, primed and painted right over it. Where specifically would I find it? I understand now that the frame defines the vehicle. I would have to start with a new frame if I buy the rusty 68 I’m looking at. Here in MN nobody looks at the vehicle so I don’t think there is an issue with registration. But my main concern is the cost of the project. I put about 25k in the 66 U13 doing EVERYTHING myself. I could see that doubling on the rusty 68. At that point I’m hiring an attorney to represent me in the divorce proceedings. So I probably need to look for something better to work on.

usually on the frame for sure as stated by others...
 

DonH

Sr. Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
421
Loc.
WA State 30 miles from the beach
OK, serious question here:

What do you do with a Bronco with a replacement frame?

Either:
1. A non-matching frame from a donor Bronco, in which case you would have two vin #s on the same Bronco,
OR
2. A brand-new replacement frame from Kincer or others?

So often folks on this board take the absolute answer, lots of "Always" and "Never", when there is grey area all over in 50+ year old cars, and every state is different. Neither one of these scenarios proves that a car was stolen.

Here in WA state, all they want is your registration money and the taxes that go with it. Finding stolen cars is not something that the LEOs do here.

Here in WA State they do inspect the frame ID but there is a real problem. I bought a 67 Bronco four months ago and can not get it inspected because WSP will no give out appointments for it. Its a Covid thing. I keep spending money on it. I have a bill of sale with the vin, that matches the body vin and the frame vin. I have a order from DMV for an inspection but WSP has a problem.
 

mebco09

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
460
Here in WA State they do inspect the frame ID but there is a real problem. I bought a 67 Bronco four months ago and can not get it inspected because WSP will no give out appointments for it. Its a Covid thing. I keep spending money on it. I have a bill of sale with the vin, that matches the body vin and the frame vin. I have a order from DMV for an inspection but WSP has a problem.

Why are they saying you need an inspection? Is it because you don't have a title?

In the last 4 years, my Dad and I have bought 4 cars from out of State, and none has needed any inspection. BUT, all the cars had titles.
 

ngsd

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
2,531
I plan on buying a Kincer or krawlers edge frame and building a rig. My plan was to buy a 66 title so its a 1966.

Now if i sold it....that could get wonky....cause its not the orig frame.

But I hoard things

Kincer will supply a cert of origin for their chassis.
 
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