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Bad news???

Speedrdr

Contributor
Learning Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
1,134
Loc.
Paris, MS
Went to shop where they were working on electrical system and getting it to fire. Found out that 1) firing order was off 2) rings were stuck somewhat 3) engine is NOT a '77 302, but an HO 302 out of a mustang. After they figured THAT out and corrected the firing order/plug wires, it runs, but has a lot of blow back. Possible stuck rings and cylinder walls rusty. Should I go ahead with an engine rebuild (since it appears to be a roller block) or just get a crate engine and drop in?
I know it's a long question, but...
Randy
 

langester

Contributor
MASTER OF MADNESS
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
2,660
Might try BG 109 in the motor and see if it can free up the rings. I have used their products in the past and love them. My local Carquest carries their products, all kinds of applications.

Here is a link to the web site: https://www.bgprod.com/
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,834
Usually not a fan of snake oil, but if snake oil will fix/postpone a rebuild it can be worth it. Set your expectations low and be happy if it works. Probably won't, its a gamble, what is that bottle of snake oil cost?

Engines can come back to life, or not.

If you need an engine, decide what your needs are first. A 375 HP 302 sure sounds like it would be fun, but it will suck if you don't have the right gearing to keep the engine in the RPM window it needs. And if you just cruise around town you probably don't want to have to drive it in that RPM window that makes that kind of HP. IS a stock engine a better choice? It could be. OR maybe you just want it all and scrap the 302 block and do a 408 stroker. So many engine options and not all are right. And the price is all over the place as well. The 408 is nearly the same price as a built up 302.
 
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Speedrdr

Speedrdr

Contributor
Learning Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
1,134
Loc.
Paris, MS
Worth a shot fo sho. They pulled all the plugs and put oil and I'm not sure what else in cylinders and let it work for 4days hand turning crank. It runs, just not quite right.
Randy
 

unimogger

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
214
Loc.
Philthadelphia
I would run it for a week or so, in my experience all but the worst stuck rings will come loose. Oil down the plug holes every few days, maybe some 2 stroke in the fuel. I never know if it helps, or if I just think it did..
 
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Speedrdr

Speedrdr

Contributor
Learning Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
1,134
Loc.
Paris, MS
Am going back to shop in morning to assess options. I really don't mind having the engine rebuilt since it's the roller engine (supposed to be). I also don't have an issue with a crate engine either. If the brake system was okay to drive and the gas tank and lines were already swapped out, I would probably just run the snot out of it with some concoction of seafoam or marvel mystery oil ...you get the pic. I just don't want to get it home and have issues away from where there's a lift handy.
Randy
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
One thing to look out for is a leaking intake manifold gasket. I've seen a split gasket cause a bad vacuum leak from the lifter valley. It burned oil, ran bad, and had been condemned as a "worn out" motor. It won't cause blow-by, but it will burn oil, smoke, and fowl plugs.

This was a problem for a while when owners with aluminum intake manifolds used an intake gasket that had no steel reinforcement.
Look up "FelPro 1250 problems" and you'll see a lot more about it.:mad:
 
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Speedrdr

Speedrdr

Contributor
Learning Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
1,134
Loc.
Paris, MS
Looks like I'm gonna have to make a decision h to e. Do I get the <presumed> HO roller engine rebuilt and save HP potential OR get a rebuilt crate 302 dropped in? It's coming down to $$$ versus quicker return to me working on body. Advice is welcome
Randy
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Looks like I'm gonna have to make a decision h to e. Do I get the <presumed> HO roller engine rebuilt and save HP potential OR get a rebuilt crate 302 dropped in? It's coming down to $$$ versus quicker return to me working on body. Advice is welcome
Randy

Is this a primary driver, or a project?
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
It's def a project, so turnaround is not a killer on the deal. I'm a couple of years from retiring, or at least part-time (I'm an RN) so there's that.
Randy

If you're not in a hurry, then take some time to investigate.
Unless you want to use the opportunity to get a new motor.
Sounds silly, I know, but it happens a lot.%)
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
I would run it a couple weeks with snake oil in it and a quart of atf in the oil. Then after the 2 weeks was up do a leak down test on it and go from there. I would probably rebuild the roller motor.
 

Rusty_S85

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
120
If rings are stuck you could always hold engine up around 1,500 - 2,000 rpm and pour slowly straight transmission fluid down the carb/throttlebody. It has a good chance of freeing the rings.

Another option is the AC Delco upper cylinder cleaner its the blue stuff in the small body forget the part number, but if you do this I would pour slowly half a bottle then pour the last bit in quite fast to stall the engine out and let it sit for 15 to 30 minutes to let it soak ontop of the rings before firing up again.

This is what we did to a 390 FE that had excessive blow by and it helped quite a bit.
 
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Speedrdr

Speedrdr

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Learning Member
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Nov 27, 2017
Messages
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Loc.
Paris, MS
Good the $$$ prices for rebuild (1350) of the HO roller block versus rebuilt crate (3750) from a '79 Ford. And this point, and I may be working on a bad assumption, but think the least expensive is the best choice as the potential is there for a few more ponies if wanted.
Have I lost my mind or not?
Randy
 

bmc69

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,852
Good the $$$ prices for rebuild (1350) of the HO roller block versus rebuilt crate (3750) from a '79 Ford. And this point, and I may be working on a bad assumption, but think the least expensive is the best choice as the potential is there for a few more ponies if wanted.
Have I lost my mind or not?
Randy

That's remarkably cheap for a rebuild....heck the machine work alone can often run that much.
 

Rusty_S85

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
120
That's remarkably cheap for a rebuild....heck the machine work alone can often run that much.

Unless the builder has their own equipment and does their own machinework.

I know locally to have a short block done its about $2,200 and I have to supply the buildable core.

Creb Engineering is where im ordering my short block from as I don't have to supply my short block and he will do all the work and assembly for $1600. Now $1300 that is a real steal and I would be checking to ensure the parts stated to be used are actually being used.

I know ive seen some local engine builders quote pricing for AFR heads but then toss on cheapie procomp heads.
 
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Speedrdr

Speedrdr

Contributor
Learning Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
1,134
Loc.
Paris, MS
The shop that is doing the work has all the machines to do it and have been known to build race engines as well as standard rebuild work. The 1350 doesn't include tax so about 1440. Will have $$ for my mechanic pull and reinstall, but would have that cost anyway with a crate engine. All in all, it's gonna be more economical in the long run. Just looking forward to having it back at the house.
Randy
 
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