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Old 06/02/19, 10:44 AM   #1
psehring
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Need Help With possible reason why bronco won't start

I want to start with to I'm very new to owning a bronco (my first non modern vehicle). Over the last two years I had a bronco built for me. Full off-frame restoration that was suppose to take 6 months and because of these I didn't end on the best note when getting my bronco and won't go back to the shop that did 90 percent of the work because they would continue to lie about what they were doing until I would show up and see they hadn't done anything. After receiving the bronco I was able to drive it about 20 miles to my house before it cut off on me. I did all the standard checks to see what it could be and I thought it wasn't getting fuel. It has a fully rebuilt 351w with fuel injection. Had another local shop run some test and they informed me it was my hi fitch 4 barrel carburetor. I had them order a mean street hi tech new carburetor a little more expensive then the one I had before from hi tech but was rated for higher horse power (800hp) so no big deal. Got the bronco back with 92 miles on it since build. I had been very cautious driving the car because I thought it might be running a little hot cause it would run from 190-200 but my understanding that is okay now. but while driving it about 55 mph and it was running about 190 it cut out on me once again about 120 miles on it. While I sat there thinking why didn't I just buy one that already worked and not wasted two years having the perfect one built it magically started. I did notice the coolant was low so I added some more but that his strange cause I had added coolant when it first died before getting the new carburetor. The car almost made it another 2 miles to my house before cutting out a final time. I can't figure out what could be the problem since everything is brand new from other than the engine being rebuilt. Im sure someone had a tread out there similar to my problem but I couldn't find it.
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Old 06/02/19, 10:55 AM   #2
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Lets start with the "standard checks" you have already done. What exactly have you checked?

Pass me some duct tape and zip ties, I'm not done yet.....
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Old 06/02/19, 12:20 PM   #3
SteveL
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Low coolant could've been a bubble in the system being new but I would check the oil to make sure it's not a head gasket or crack. Where did the motor come from? Does it start back up after it cools off? When it shuts off does it sputter like out of gas or just shut off like a switch?
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Old 06/02/19, 01:41 PM   #4
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It doesn't start back up after it cools off anymore it did twice tho. the checks I did before I sent it to the shop for a more detailed looks were coolant, battery, starter, made sure the oil level was right because I had just received the bronco. But when it was running for the short period I have no stuttering or anything I that I noticed and when it would cut off it was without warning, just driving then boom no power.
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Old 06/02/19, 01:49 PM   #5
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I haven't driven the bronco in 24 hours obviously but it seems to have lost about 20 percent of the coolant in that time. I am not as knowledgeable about working on my own cars as maybe I should be but from looking in the engine knowlegable everything looks right to me. I could take a picture of the engine bay and post it here but I doubt that would help much.
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Old 06/02/19, 02:19 PM   #6
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doesn't sound like vapor lock, that usually resolves once the truck cools off. However, check your fuel lines and see if they are close to any heat source like your exhaust system if so move them or try to insulate them. You could check your fuel pump too maybe that's bad o be an ignition system issue. Pull your plugs and see if they're getting spark...these are some basic things you can check on your own...hope that helps

1968 Bronco, 289, dana 30, C4 auto, stock ps, MSD ready to run ignition, centech, desert khaki....everything else stock: 1970 Bronco 302 3 spd, Koenig PTO winch : 1990 AM GENERAL HUMVEE 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T : 2008 Honda Element (aka Bronco Concept) : 1968 Dodge Charger in pieces
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Old 06/02/19, 03:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psehring View Post
coolant, battery, starter, made sure the oil level was right because I had just received the bronco.
Just for future reference, with these old vehicles none of those can cause an engine to just stall out. There are other clues they can give, but low, or hot coolant, low or hot oil, or anything like that can not control how the engine runs.
Yes it might run less good, but it won't die until you get to the extremes (like no oil, or no coolant) and by then it's too late.
So still and all, it's good to check those things just for your peace of mind and a reference to see what all the new stuff is doing. But it won't stall a running engine and keep it from re-starting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psehring View Post
But when it was running for the short period I have no stuttering or anything I that I noticed and when it would cut off it was without warning, just driving then boom no power.
The "good running" part is at least a good sign. But we'll need to know a lot more about your build because we're beyond the intro to problem solving 101 now. Gonna' have to dig deeper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psehring View Post
I haven't driven the bronco in 24 hours obviously but it seems to have lost about 20 percent of the coolant in that time.
This is part of the more details, so some basic questions first:
1. What year is the Bronco?
2. What all was done by the other company?
3. Is it supposedly complete? Or just "almost complete" at this point?
4. What was done to the engine (do you have a build sheet?) internally?
5. What injection system? You said "high tech Fitch" which I assume means FiTech? Not familiar with the replacement though, so if you have a link to it that would be great.
Oh, and even though I think most of us know what you meant by "carburetor" we might as well start calling it a throttle-body (or TBI for throttle body injection) to keep it separate from a non-electronic carburetor.
Like I said though, we knew what you were talking about so I was just picking nits to get is sidetracked for a moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psehring View Post
I am not as knowledgeable about working on my own cars as maybe I should be but from looking in the engine knowlegable everything looks right to me.
Too many small faults can hide under a normal looking engine compartment. Especially to the less experienced with this sleuthing stuff. So here's where your next comment goes south...

Quote:
Originally Posted by psehring View Post
I could take a picture of the engine bay and post it here but I doubt that would help much.
Hah! Wrongo! Not only do we love pics around here (especially of a newly built Bronco) but we might actually be able to see some things that the builder did wrong, or that are sticking out enough to see that you might have missed.
Helps to have more eyes on the subject sometimes.

You can upload them to your "garage" feature, or to put them directly in your discussion you can become a contributor for 12bucks a year. Or in a pinch you can e-mail them to one of us with the yellow "contributor" under their username and we can post them up for you.
If you want to go that route, you can send all you want to me at paulb@wildhorses4x4.com and I'll post them up for you. Send them in as big a file as you want so we can get all the gory little details. If they're too big I can reduce them a bit at this end.

One last question. Do you have a tachometer?

Good luck. I bet we can at least make this experience a little more tolerable after hanging out here and chewing on it for awhile.

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

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Old 06/02/19, 04:16 PM   #8
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When I mentioned the oil can you tell if there's coolant or water in the oil? Or if its overfilled like by the amount of coolant your missing. Hey Paul I the the 2nd carb/throttle body might be the stage 2 fintech. Isn't it called mean street? Or else it's another one summit sells . I know I've seen the term. I dont know much about those systems but is there any kind of thermal switch that could be cutting out? Or CPU getting too hot? Where is it mounted?psehring where are you located? Maybe there are some members on here close enough to get a look at it.
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Old 06/02/19, 04:23 PM   #9
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Good call Steve. The ECU/ECM is mounted to the side of the throttle body, along with some of the sensors.
It's a common practice and works well, but that does not mean it's completely free from defects.
But with it doing the same thing on two separate TBI units (even though they're from the same company) seems to indicate something else. You never know though, so something to keep in mind.

I know they have had an issue with their supplied coolant temp sensors (there are threads here discussing good replacements) but I don't see how a bad CTS would cut out the engine either.

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 06/02/19, 04:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
psehring where are you located? Maybe there are some members on here close enough to get a look at it.
Good idea too! I know I'd jump at the chance to work on a clean and just-put-together EB rather than having dirt falling in my face every time! I bet others feel the same.
We usually have a great time meeting up with new friends and fellow Bronco owners/classic members when the opportunity arises.

Oh, and I forgot my manners! Welcome to classicbroncos pserhring! I know you've been here a few months now, but what the heck.
Sorry you had such a bad experience with the builder too. An all too common happening these days it seems.

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 06/02/19, 05:23 PM   #11
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It sounds electrical. And just because they are new parts does not mean they are good parts. I've had more issues with new parts than functional used parts. I think everyone has.

The just shut off, normally I would call that a loss of spark. Fuel issues usually fade power and die. But with EFI, fuel is delivered electronically. So in your case it could be either way.

Spark is the easy one to check. Pull a plug wire, stick a screwdriver in it and leave about " air gap between the shaft and a ground. A plastic screwdriver handle is perfect as you can use this to prop the screwdriver shank away from metal. Often the hardest part is setting this someplace where you can see the gap while turning the key and cranking the engine over. Should be a strong spark, you can usually even hear it.

No spark, you should start looking at the ignition system. Don't know what you have so we have to stop here.

So you have spark, probably a fuel issue. You should get a big can of carb or brake cleaner. Either one, don't care. Make sure it has big warnings about being flammable. The non-flammable stuff won't work for this. Also avoid the chlorinated stuff for this. What you have is fuel in a can with a push button dispenser. A 2-3 second shot of fuel in the top of the throttle body is enough fuel for the engine to fire and run for a couple seconds. For a novice, take off the air filter, move the throttle linkage, squirt (more is not better, just 2-3 seconds), set the air cleaner back on (it can sneeze back and set the juice on fire, the air cleaner helps contain it).

If you have spark, and it runs for a couple seconds on the spray, fuel issue. Fuel pump? EFI? Wiring? You have a controller for the EFI, is the a sensor page (I don't know that brand enough to know). Do you see RPM while cranking the engine?

This unfortunately is the shake down stuff that every new build goes through. The stuff you see on TV skips this. I've heard that most of the shows will have the big revile, then the car goes away for a few weeks, gets debugged, then they do the filming of the car being driven if there is even any footage of that. The not so glamorous side of finishing a new car build. Even new cars built today get a couple miles of shake down at the end of the line.

"She's built like a steakhouse but she handles like a bistro"-Zapp Brannigan
Why do people keep expecting "normal" from me?
Full throttle, it either solves the problem or ends the suspense.
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Old 06/02/19, 08:06 PM   #12
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A lot to take all that in thanks for all the help. Yes I meant FiTech and here is the link to the part I just had put in https://fitechefi.com/products/30008/. The bronco is a 1970 I don't have the full engine build sheet. Im having towed back to the shop that installed that last part to run through it all again. I live in Santa rosa beach Fl. I will up load some pictures as we speak and pay the 12 dollar in the morning so I can make the feed a little easier to follow. and in the morning when I haver more time to go over all this I will respond more specifically to all that was asked.
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Old 06/02/19, 08:21 PM   #13
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I believe I just uploaded three pictures to my garage. The bronco was suppose to 100 percent complete. The other company did 100 percent of the work and was very high dollar but switch owners shortly after I signed the contract for the build. I haven't had the bronco run for more then 15 min at a time because of all these issues and as much as I loves cars I've never really worked on them other then the basics. I was hoping I could past on some of this info to my new shop since they don't regularly work on broncos but I do live on the beach and its not uncommon to have them come in.
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Old 06/03/19, 06:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psehring View Post
I believe I just uploaded three pictures to my garage. The bronco was suppose to 100 percent complete. The other company did 100 percent of the work and was very high dollar but switch owners shortly after I signed the contract for the build. I haven't had the bronco run for more then 15 min at a time because of all these issues and as much as I loves cars I've never really worked on them other then the basics. I was hoping I could past on some of this info to my new shop since they don't regularly work on broncos but I do live on the beach and its not uncommon to have them come in.
Yeah, they are there....

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Old 06/03/19, 06:01 AM   #15
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Guess you better call the Whaaaambulance

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psehring View Post
A lot to take all that in thanks for all the help. Yes I meant FiTech and here is the link to the part I just had put in https://fitechefi.com/products/30008/. The bronco is a 1970 I don't have the full engine build sheet. Im having towed back to the shop that installed that last part to run through it all again. I live in Santa rosa beach Fl. I will up load some pictures as we speak and pay the 12 dollar in the morning so I can make the feed a little easier to follow. and in the morning when I haver more time to go over all this I will respond more specifically to all that was asked.
Broncobowsher just had a great thread on that, go check it out for sure

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