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302 Water Pump Reco

edgeoffroad04

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
218
Looking for some thoughts on replacing my "stock" water pump. It finally gave out and I was looking to hear some opinions on brands. My Bronco sees a mix of street driving with some stop and go along with off roading mostly in Sand Dunes. In the past after running hard or sitting in some traffic my temps would approach 195 to 205F regularly and then cool down once moving.

I realize an upgrade my stock fan is in my future, but today is about water pumps. I am looking at two options I found at Summit Racing: GMB Hi-Po and a FlowKooler pump. Besides the name is FlowKooler worth double the price? Also is there another brand I should be looking at for a new water pump?

Thanks!
 

mrdrnac

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
549
The Flowcooler pump appears to be well engineered and made and design is a definite improvement over stock design pumps. Mine has been working well for about 4 years now. However, it does sound like you need improved air flow as well as water flow at idle due to your cooling issues..
 

brbuilder

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
162
I went through this pump selection process a while ago. I have some posts on it. The GMB 125-1420 is cast, 125-1420AL is aluminum and the 125-1420P is the same as the 125-1420AL but costs a few dollars more. I purchased both and confirmed this with GMB customer service/tech. I ended up purchasing the FlowKooler which is the GMB 125-1420AL with a different aluminum impeller.
 

jckkys

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
5,211
The FloCooler pump has a fully enclosed impeller, a huge enhancement of low RPM efficiency. My father who was a centrifugal pump engineer for hot water heating systems was surprised the automotive industry hadn't done this. FloCooler points this out in all their sales brochures along with the recommendation for Robertshaw thermostats. They claim that more movement of the coolant is always an advantage, contrary to the theory that the coolant has to spend more time in the radiator to cool. We'll see.
We all know EBs don't like to stand still in hot weather. Unlike newer vehicles, little effort was made to keep heated air that passed through the radiator from being drawn through again. I think this can be done with retrofit air dams and baffles. The fan shroud is the first and most important step. Some vendors sell a stainless air dam/tool tray closing the space between the core support and the grill that would help. Even more could be done too.
 
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edgeoffroad04

edgeoffroad04

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
218
Thanks everyone for the feedback. always goods to hear real world reviews of products especially on our beloved Broncos. I was heavily leaning towards FlowKooler and it sounds like the best direction to go to put be on the right path to improved cooling.

@mrdrnac - I currently have a copper/brass 4 core radiator(not stock), which is the better upgrade change up fans or go to a different radiator (AL?)?

@brbuilder - what you said are the bread crumbs I started to piece together from reviews and repies on Summits website. Good to hear you validated it too. I am currently going for the FlowKooler 1681

@jckkys -I have seen the air dam/ tool tray option you bring up, I do have a fan shroud which improved cooling but didnt get me all of the way there. Would the air dams or an updated (better) flowing fan be better?
 

jckkys

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
5,211
The 7 blade fan supplied in many EBs is the best you'll find. JBG has both these and an after market (Flex-a-Lite I think) fan that's nearly identical. Aluminum radiators aren't as effective as brass. The best radiators I know of are the 3 row high density brass radiators BCB sold. I had the high density core put in my OE 3 row. Your 4 row is likely close and better than aluminum.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,265
@mrdrnac - I currently have a copper/brass 4 core radiator (not stock). Which is the better upgrade, change up fans or go to a different radiator (AL?)?
@jckkys -I have seen the air dam/tool tray option you bring up, I do have a fan shroud which improved cooling but didn't get me all of the way there. Would the air dams or an updated (better) flowing fan be better?

Answers depend on other things. Like what parts do you have now that are not up to the task. Those would be best replaced first, before other stuff. But anything you do to make the whole system more efficient is a good thing no matter what order you do them in.

First of all though, let me say that you don't really have a problem. A temp of 195 to 205 when being used hard in sand dunes or traffic are results that half the members here would give their entire parts budget for!
Which makes it even harder to tell if one or more of your parts is questionable. Because your results are so good to begin with. Yes, if you could keep a steady reading of whatever your thermostat is rated for would be amazing and let you move on to other things, but if you have a 180 in there now, a temperature rise of 15-25 degrees is nothing.

For your fan, a stock one is a good fan, but if you wanted to upgrade you could find a way to mount a newer one that's larger and with more blades and with a fan clutch.
As for your radiator, it's fine too. Whether or not an aluminum one is better than your 4-core copper one depends entirely on the design of each and their good points and bad.
Copper is the better heat conductor, but many modern aluminum radiators have more efficient cores and can cool better. But with what you have, I would keep it until it fails, then decide.
Since it's thicker and probably has a denser fin count, a more efficient fan could help pull more air through. Or add an auxiliary electric fan, but that's not usually much of an option for Bronco owners. Too little room.

The air dams and fan shrouds are absolutely making things more efficient and the air flow more effective because more of it is directed through the core and less is lost around it. But they are not cure-alls for whatever is ailing a cooling system.
Just as letting air out of the engine compartment is critical, which is why there are louvered hoods and fenders, as well as inner fender liners that let air out through the wheel wells.
This is as big a deal on some Broncos as any of the other stuff we're discussing.

And on top of everything else physically making up the cooling system, your engine tune has a LOT to do with how hot the engine runs. A poorly tuned engine can often produce more heat than the cooling system can evacuate. Not all over-heating issues are coolant and air flow related.

But again, the bottom line for me is that you don't really have a problem if all you ever see is 205° under load. Modern vehicles run at 215 normally. Your basic Windsor family engine from the '80's right through to 2002 or so used something like a 195-ish thermostat. Probably back into the '70's as well. And is what many of us run now.

Each of the things you mention is a good upgrade. Anything that makes the cooling system more effective/efficient is a good thing.
Just no way to tell which one, if any, will be the golden bullet that keeps you below 195.
If any...

Paul
 
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edgeoffroad04

edgeoffroad04

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
218
I really love this site...love hearing the perspective and knowledge that is shared.

@72Sport- wow that is good information from the thread in archives. Also great work tracing the issues and flow of heat through the engine compartment. Do your fixes you implemented still work well today? Anything you would add or do differently?


@DirtDonk- It was mentioned earlier a stock Bronco has a 7 blade fan...mine has had a 5 blade fan which makes me puzzled now. Overall I should count myself lucky to run the temperatures that my engine shows. Once I get the new pump installed I am curious to see how the engine handles stop and go first before throwing any more parts at it. Hopefully I can just enjoy it for the rest of this year before winter hits.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,265
Replacing one part at a time sometimes takes longer, but it's the only way to know for sure what fixes, or does not fix a problem.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,265
Maybe that was originally a six-cylinder fan? Or whatever they had laying around. Or maybe it's not a factory fan at all?

Interested to hear what, if any differences each component makes.

Paul
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Spending money on aftermarket cooling issues is seldom successful.
If your gauge isn't running close to your thermostat temp, you've got a problem that needs to be fixed.
Cooling issues can usually be traced to retarded timing, a bad or flipped thermostat, plugged radiator, lack of a proper shroud, or flipped head gasket.

The stock water pump is more than sufficient for most applications. Mine works great, with a stock style radiator. It keeps its cool on 100+ days with the A/C on, stopped in traffic and running down the freeway.
 

72Sport

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
2,954
I really love this site...love hearing the perspective and knowledge that is shared.

@72Sport- wow that is good information from the thread in archives. Also great work tracing the issues and flow of heat through the engine compartment. Do your fixes you implemented still work well today? Anything you would add or do differently?

I haven't changed anything in years to improve cooling. I changed the air cleaner after I had complaints from my tune up man. I added the Olds part to the air the cleaner so the Q-jet could breathe. I wrote an article for Bronco Driver, Issue 12pg 59. I gave the wrong information on the engine fan. I actually used a Flex A Lite #1517 on the Mustang front dress with a 3 core heavy duty stock radiator recommended by my local radiator shop.
 
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