Best wrap trap/torque bar?

[ntsqd]

You really haven't reading this thread, have you?

 

[Broncobowsher]

You really haven't reading this thread, have you?

You've been ignoring that this works haven't you?

I've put my photos of it working great. Where are yours showing it is a failure? And I can't provide you with failure photos because I don't have any.

 

[ntsqd]

I've never said that it doesn't work. I've said that it's not the best for the springs. I've said that the loads put on the front shackle bolts are huge and pointed to cK5.com thread where a guy sheared off a 3/4" G2 bolt in a home brew version. I've said that it forces a large delta in pinion angle. Something that you continue to deny, but won't prove with one simple picture. You dance around the topic with misdirection and excuses, but won't actually do what it takes to prove me wrong.

I don't own such a unit, I can't offer any photos or I would. I'm not asking for failure photos. Since you're an owner of something like this I'm asking you to prove me wrong, but since you can't or won't take the picture that I've repeatedly asked for I am left with the impression that you know the truth but won't divulge it and continue to promote it's use to save face.

I can admit that I'm wrong, can you?

 

[WASP1971]

I'm not voting on function but that set up Desert Thrasher has looks awesome.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I'm not denying that the forces are huge. I heft a pile of broken parts on the first few attempts to build the arm. Bent, broken and torn. But in the process of controlling the axle torque you will have to deal with these forces one way or another. As for stressing the springs, compare the shape a leaf spring folds into without anything compared to the shape it takes with a traction aid. Not static loading, dynamic where it has to deal with the axle torque loads.

And repeatedly asking for pictures of a suspension twisted up while half disassembled to show that there are forces that the arm is controlling is about as stupid as asking for proof that an oil additive works by pouring dirt on the rocker arms of an engine while it is running. Besides I sold that Bronco 5 years ago and the best I can tell the arm and springs have worked very well for the next two owners.

 

[tmbuehrer]

Ok there is a lot of useful info from this thread, but I guess I have a similar but different problem. I did a reverse shackle setup in the rear which gave me 4 inches. I get absolutely no axle wrap but the rear of the vehicle squats a lot and i believe traction is minimized. I was wondering if there is a bar setup that will prevent squatting and plant the rear tires better? Alright after reading the article on 4x4wire hyperlinked earlier in the thread i realize that I am probably suffering from axle wrap even though there is no wheel hop. this is probably the setup i need.

 

[stlo]

I feel bad for the guy that volunteers to take the pic of one flexed out without it being hooked up... Lol

 

[ntsqd]

Why?

Neither of us can prove our point without it, and it is only stupid to him because he can't provide it. It's no different than ramping a truck looking for parts that hit or might work better. I've gone thru the logic repeatedly from every angle that I can think of, and it isn't getting thru.

If the rear is squatting I don't see how you can't have at least some spring wrap. If you were linked then I'd say that the design doesn't have enough anti-squat to suit your needs or desires, but with no linkage and only leaf springs the only way that I can think of for torque to induce squat is thru spring wrap.

 

[PaveBronco]

I'm going to put on one of each, that way nobody will yell at me...

 

[ntsqd]

Or everybody will.

 

[Yeller]

This has been sad to read, like watching 2 boys telling each other their Daddy is tougher than the other......

All that asside having built and abused both types (and yes I'm like a ham fisted 300# 2 year old on parts... ) I've destroyed both of them, ripped 1/4" plate like card board, broken joints crushed shackles, broke bolts, ripped out bushing eyes, all of it. The forces are huge on BOTH of them. With the wrap trap I was bending the leaf pack (not the main leaf, the pack) and killing ujoints, was still getting axle wrap, not as bad but still getting it. with a torque arm I was just bending the main leaf occastionally and having no reliablity issues with ujoints, no axle wrap, the bent main leaf was purley form forward forces that it couldn't deal with, they were bending right at the eye, military wrap helped a lot but did not cure it.

The ony cure I could ever find for leaf spring issues was to go to links and never look back.

 

[tmbuehrer]

With the rod on the bottom side the axle and going up to the frame. would it be wise to keep the rod parallel with the driveshaft

 

[stlo]

Same flex with both for me....like Steve(yeller) I've built many of both and broke my fair share of both...... Honestly I think it boils down to what style of leafs u are running determines which of these two u choose ....

 

[Broncobowsher]

This has been sad to read, like watching 2 boys telling each other their Daddy is tougher than the other......

All that asside having built and abused both types (and yes I'm like a ham fisted 300# 2 year old on parts... ) I've destroyed both of them, ripped 1/4" plate like card board, broken joints crushed shackles, broke bolts, ripped out bushing eyes, all of it. The forces are huge on BOTH of them. With the wrap trap I was bending the leaf pack (not the main leaf, the pack) and killing ujoints, was still getting axle wrap, not as bad but still getting it. with a torque arm I was just bending the main leaf occastionally and having no reliablity issues with ujoints, no axle wrap, the bent main leaf was purley form forward forces that it couldn't deal with, they were bending right at the eye, military wrap helped a lot but did not cure it.

The ony cure I could ever find for leaf spring issues was to go to links and never look back.

Getting to those carnage levels, links and really good ones. I have seen linked suspension still turn into a plate of spagatti.

 

[Yeller]

The best part about going to links is the ability to take those destructive forces and control them and turn that into stability and forward traction.