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BP 306 Oil Consumption

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,735
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
My vote is either a PCV siphon problem or intake manifold gaskets.
Aftermarket cast valve covers can be a problem. All of the ones I've seen have only a bent piece of sheet metal for an oil baffle for the PCV openings. In comparison, steel valve covers have a real baffle that's sort of a labyrinth affair that is designed to separate the oil from air. My new Blueprint engine came with chrome steel valve covers that has the real baffles. I'd like to replace them with something nicer, but I'd rather have an engine that doesn't burn oil.
Vanity has its price.

Also, we would all like to think our intake gaskets are sealing properly, but assuming that all those surfaces between the heads, and intake are perfectly aligned and fitted is a mistake. It should always be checked before final assembly. Previous machining of the head and/or cylinder deck will affect the fit of the intake manifold. Sometimes the intake manifold will need to be machined to make the runners line up properly.
I had a 302 once with only 60K on the rebuild that started fouling plugs, using oil, and running poopy. I assumed it was just worn out, but it had good cylinder compression. It turned out to be leaky intake manifold gaskets.
 
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blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
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Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,735
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Lots of owners have blamed Fel-Pro's 1250 for their intake gasket failures. Yes, that's a lousy gasket, but a lot of the blame can go to the builder. If you don't know the history of the block, heads, and intake manifold, this can happen to you. You can't just buy a block or head and assume that someone hasn't put them on the mill. You have to measure! Please quit throwing engines together without knowing what you've got.
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Jul 18, 2007
Messages
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I have a Blue Print 302 and had the same problem. They told me to check the intake seals, found oil in intake runners in head. ( I installed a new Weiand intake ) Gaskets didn't seal. Replaced gaskets and tighened everything to Ford spec's. Saw oil off rocker arm was splashing stright into the PCV valve and fouled it. Added a baffle under PCV hole and new PCV valve fix my oil burning problem
Thanks BOBS, what gaskets did you go with?
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Messages
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Great feedback Bobs 2 68s, thanks for getting in on the action here!

Your driving conditions sound pretty ideal badandy. At least to the 3000 RPM mark.
What tire size are you running with those 4.11s? You’re right that 4.11 with a C4 is pretty good for several common tire sizes.
Running the ol' standard 33 x 12.5
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Jul 18, 2007
Messages
88
is the oil pump standard or is it high volume
I'm not sure, honestly. Can't say I've ever come across anything in the published specs of the motor talking about a high volume pump?
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Messages
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Thanks for all the replies, as several of you have mentioned, I'm getting more suspicious of the intake gaskets and thinking of pulling it off tomorrow to take a look. There is some coolant weeping out of the front and sides of the intake where it meets the heads on either side, so I know it can't be sealed up as well as it should be.

Suggestions on the best gasket set to use? Seems like mixed reviews on the FelPro 1250's, what about the 1262's, or 1250S3? From what I understand, I should be looking to match the port size on the gasket to be as close to or a little larger than the intake runner size on the heads?

Do you absolutely have to pull the distributor to get it to come out, or does it just make it a lot easier when setting it back into place?
 

tirewater

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Sr. Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
996
I suggest taking a step back and writing down the list of possibilities and start looking at them easiest to hardest.

Such as:
1. Visible leaks, front, rear, bottom, top of the engine. Go slowly over the engine with a flash light. Check block to intake manifold - "china rail" area. Check transmission bell housing for oil. There are oil plugs pressed into the back of the block (oil galleys & cam shaft plug), check for leakages.
2. Valve cover breathers. Do they have baffles? Pull out the PCV or hose and peer into them. Both valve covers will have breather ports.
3. Does the PCV valve work? If it rattles when you shake it, it's probably fine.
4. Check your spark plugs by removing them!! Any oily residue on your spark plugs? (could indicate bad valve stem seals or piston rings)
5. Excessive blow by...if the engine runs well and has good power, things are likely good. You could run a compression (or leak down) test to check. Compression test is pretty easy to do providing you have the tester. Test while engine is warmed up.
6. Valve stem seals. You said you get a puff of smoke on cold start. Is this blue? If it's tinged blue, then you may have a leaking valve stem seal. You could remove the valve covers and peer through the valve springs to make sure each valve has a seal. Otherwise you'd have to remove the valve springs (don't let valve drop into cylinder, or keeper into the block) to check for tears or wear.

As for intake to cylinder head gaskets. I have a hard time picturing those leaking oil. They primarily separate air & coolant. They do separate the valley from the intake runners, but the bottom part of the gasket would have to be missing to allow oil tossed up from the lifters to get ingested.

If you have coolant leaks from the intake gaskets, that's a separate matter and should be remedied asap. As for model of intake gasket, get the ones that fit your engine. The different FelPro variants have different intake/coolant hole sizes, EGR ports, etc... My personal opinion on the 1250 issues are that they're likely installation related. Either over tightened, or using sealant when one shouldn't. Perhaps the 1250 should be more tolerant, but it is what it is. If you pull your intake, make sure that the coolant holes on the gasket you use aren't too big for your engine - this could be the issue with you seeing coolant weeping from the intake.
 

Broncobowsher

Contributor
Total hack
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Jun 4, 2002
Messages
33,193
Thanks for all the replies, as several of you have mentioned, I'm getting more suspicious of the intake gaskets and thinking of pulling it off tomorrow to take a look. There is some coolant weeping out of the front and sides of the intake where it meets the heads on either side, so I know it can't be sealed up as well as it should be.

Suggestions on the best gasket set to use? Seems like mixed reviews on the FelPro 1250's, what about the 1262's, or 1250S3? From what I understand, I should be looking to match the port size on the gasket to be as close to or a little larger than the intake runner size on the heads?

Do you absolutely have to pull the distributor to get it to come out, or does it just make it a lot easier when setting it back into place?
No, the distributor does not HAVE to be pulled. Most intakes can be snaked around it.
But it is a really good idea to pull it. trying to get the intake seated, and sealed, while snaking your way around distributor is more difficult. Depending on the plug wire routing you can often leave the plug wires on the cap and plugs, just take the cap off and set it aside. At worst 4 plug wires and lay it off to the side. Don't turn the engine with the distributor out and just make sure the rotor is pointing the same direction after you put it back in. And a quicky retime just to get the last little fine tuning done. Not nearly as difficult as the initial distributor setup.
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Jul 18, 2007
Messages
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I suggest taking a step back and writing down the list of possibilities and start looking at them easiest to hardest.

Such as:
1. Visible leaks, front, rear, bottom, top of the engine. Go slowly over the engine with a flash light. Check block to intake manifold - "china rail" area. Check transmission bell housing for oil. There are oil plugs pressed into the back of the block (oil galleys & cam shaft plug), check for leakages.
2. Valve cover breathers. Do they have baffles? Pull out the PCV or hose and peer into them. Both valve covers will have breather ports.
3. Does the PCV valve work? If it rattles when you shake it, it's probably fine.
4. Check your spark plugs by removing them!! Any oily residue on your spark plugs? (could indicate bad valve stem seals or piston rings)
5. Excessive blow by...if the engine runs well and has good power, things are likely good. You could run a compression (or leak down) test to check. Compression test is pretty easy to do providing you have the tester. Test while engine is warmed up.
6. Valve stem seals. You said you get a puff of smoke on cold start. Is this blue? If it's tinged blue, then you may have a leaking valve stem seal. You could remove the valve covers and peer through the valve springs to make sure each valve has a seal. Otherwise you'd have to remove the valve springs (don't let valve drop into cylinder, or keeper into the block) to check for tears or wear.

As for intake to cylinder head gaskets. I have a hard time picturing those leaking oil. They primarily separate air & coolant. They do separate the valley from the intake runners, but the bottom part of the gasket would have to be missing to allow oil tossed up from the lifters to get ingested.

If you have coolant leaks from the intake gaskets, that's a separate matter and should be remedied asap. As for model of intake gasket, get the ones that fit your engine. The different FelPro variants have different intake/coolant hole sizes, EGR ports, etc... My personal opinion on the 1250 issues are that they're likely installation related. Either over tightened, or using sealant when one shouldn't. Perhaps the 1250 should be more tolerant, but it is what it is. If you pull your intake, make sure that the coolant holes on the gasket you use aren't too big for your engine - this could be the issue with you seeing coolant weeping from the intake.
1. I've been all over this thing before/ during/ after installing it. Coolant leaks from the front of the intake as already mentioned, specifically coming from each front corner of the 'china wall' where the intake and heads come together on each side. Slight weeping along the intake where it meets the heads on each side. More at the rear china wall, a little oil back there as well. Bell housing has a very light skim of oil at the bottom near the inspection cover (light enough to where it doesn't form a drop). Assume this is from the slight rear main leak that I've seen coming from there on the dowel plate down towards the inspection cover. That or the permatex thread sealer I used to seal the flex plate bolts are letting some oil through from the end of the crank.

2. Yes, they have baffles and good baffles at that, sheet metal plate below each grommet completely blocking oil off from being sprayed out. These are the ones I installed so I know exactly what I've got there.

3. I'll double check but it was brand new last summer, replaced the brand new that was also good that came on the engine.

4. Went through all the plugs a couple weekends ago to check and re-gap them, they all looked 'ok', not oil fouled. Ceramic were all still clean and light grey in color, some black deposits cooked on around the top of the plug and electrode, looked like from running a little rich, not necessarily oil.

5. Engine runs really strong, I checked compression on a couple of cylinders awhile back and all looked good there. Don't have the tools for a leak down test, probably should have had this done at the shop I've been working with last time it was in there and may still need to depending on what else I find.

6. Maybe a slight puff, I'd have to double check this to see if there is any color to it at all.

As far as gaskets, not sure why Blueprint would use the ones that are in there if they create leaks, but that's part of what I wanted to investigate by pulling the intake, maybe there is a better match for it with another series or brand of gasket.
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Should the torque on the intake bolts be checked dead cold, or with the engine warmed up? My Haynes manual calls for the latter? 18 ft-lbs for aluminum heads is what I'm going off of.
 

Broncobowsher

Contributor
Total hack
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Jun 4, 2002
Messages
33,193
There is no fixed answer on intake torquing. There are numbers published in the manual, which may or may not match those of the gasket manufacturer. Wouldn't surprise me it ARP had there own specs if you use there hardware. All of them are right, all of them are wrong. If it seals up fine, it was right. If not, it may have been wrong.
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Thanks Broncobowsher, went back over them at 18 cold just to rule that out, none of them budged.
 

tirewater

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Sr. Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
996
Oh, I forgot something easy-ish, and something to check first. Do you have the correct dipstick length? Stock oil pan (with dipstick insert)? For all we, the readers, know, perhaps you're overfilling by a quart and the crank shaft is whipping the oil into a mist that's sucked through the PCV system.

The varnishing looks like it's oil leaking from the valve cover gasket. Whether it's a concern or not, I don't know. I do know that I had the same issue with the blue Fel Pro valve cover gasket and I ended up using a cork one. Gasoline can causing varnishing like that as well. I wouldn't think that leakage is the cause of the excessive oil consumption.

Next time you drive the truck, when you get home check around the valve covers to see if there are any fresh oil stains. Also, while driving, grab a buddy to follow to see if the engine smokes under acceleration or deceleration.

The 1st plug looks fine. Warm up the engine and do a compression test on all cylinders, you can look at the spark plugs while doing so. Keep an eye on how quickly the compression gauge pumps up.

Coral.net has more than a few posts on Windsor oil consumption, you may want to search there.
 
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badandy73

badandy73

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Messages
88
Oh, I forgot something easy-ish, and something to check first. Do you have the correct dipstick length? Stock oil pan (with dipstick insert)? For all we, the readers, know, perhaps you're overfilling by a quart and the crank shaft is whipping the oil into a mist that's sucked through the PCV system.

The varnishing looks like it's oil leaking from the valve cover gasket. Whether it's a concern or not, I don't know. I do know that I had the same issue with the blue Fel Pro valve cover gasket and I ended up using a cork one. Gasoline can causing varnishing like that as well. I wouldn't think that leakage is the cause of the excessive oil consumption.

Next time you drive the truck, when you get home check around the valve covers to see if there are any fresh oil stains. Also, while driving, grab a buddy to follow to see if the engine smokes under acceleration or deceleration.

The 1st plug looks fine. Warm up the engine and do a compression test on all cylinders, you can look at the spark plugs while doing so. Keep an eye on how quickly the compression gauge pumps up.

Coral.net has more than a few posts on Windsor oil consumption, you may want to search there.
Thanks for the input tirewater. Yes, dipstick is correct for the motor and the one that came with it. Even went as far as having BP send a replacement dipstick and tube, because of second guessing the oil level when I first started noticing an issue. 5 qt. oil pan capacity as specified from them, with a Bronco specific pan with the clearance in the middle for the front diff.

Will consider swapping out the blue gaskets, although initially had no leaks when I first installed them with the valve covers, but think they were overtightened at one point and started bulging out a bit. I'll keep an eye on them and also have someone follow me to get a better idea of any potential smoke.
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,735
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Thanks for all the replies, as several of you have mentioned, I'm getting more suspicious of the intake gaskets and thinking of pulling it off tomorrow to take a look. There is some coolant weeping out of the front and sides of the intake where it meets the heads on either side, so I know it can't be sealed up as well as it should be.

Suggestions on the best gasket set to use? Seems like mixed reviews on the FelPro 1250's, what about the 1262's, or 1250S3? From what I understand, I should be looking to match the port size on the gasket to be as close to or a little larger than the intake runner size on the heads?

Do you absolutely have to pull the distributor to get it to come out, or does it just make it a lot easier when setting it back into place?
All you have to do is Google "FelPro 1250" and see it has issues. I've had two failures with them. On was a coolant leak and the other had two leaky runners.
The problem is they don't have a steel reinforcement layer. An aluminum intake expands at a different rate than iron. The gasket literally gets torn apart.
If you were using a 1250, the 1250s3 would be the proper replacement. The 1262 is for the very large runner heads/intakes.
Here you can see that there are small and large runners. There's a dimension reference you can click on. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2921
 
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