DIY soda / sand blasting? Or should I pay a professional?

[DuctTape]

Finally getting the spare time to start my frame-up rebuild. I've worked on old vehicles quite a bit, but I've never done a complete resto before.

One of the decisions I need to make is how to get the tub cleaned. I've gotten a local quote for 800+ for soda blasting, which seems to be about right.

But considering I can pick up the tools I need for the price of the blasting, and my time is "free", I'm thinking about doing the blasting myself, but I'm concerned about the level of skill required to avoid screwing up or spending $600 on media.

What do you folks think? Should I do it myself or is it worth it to go with the professionals?

 

[needabronco]

First off you can't buy 'soda' specific equipment for $800. The blast pot and nozzle specifically for Soda would cost considerably more. Now you could buy a $200 blast pot and nozzle and sand blast your heart out, but you'll end up with warped panels. This is assuming you have a monster sized air compressor already that can handle the continous duty cycle and volume of air. You could possibly get away with doing soda that way but the soda itself would run you $3-500 depending on what you use and where you get it from. Soda specific blast pots are designed to keep the soda from clumping and is different than a 'sand' blast pot. The nozzles are different also. A few years ago I almost pulled the trigger on a complete Soda blasting setup to go into business, so I do know what I'm talking about... And it really does cost more than a sand blasting rig...

I personally would pay the $800(which is fairly cheap for soda) and get a professional job done and know that it will be done right. Plus you don't have to clean up the gigantic mess that will be left behind!

Soda also doesn't remove heavy cancer type rust of large amounts of body filler, it will however leave the substrate silky smooth. It will actually require scuffing or light sanding in order for the primer to adhere properly... It doesn't warp panels either which is a huge advantage, because it doesn't build up heat like traditional media.

I would recommend soda, but be aware that soda does leave a residue that needs to be cleaned off before you lay down your first coat of primer. There are a variety of methods from TSP, steam cleaning, to specialty cleaners... This is also another advantage to soda as it is water soluble and will clean out of the nooks and cranny's in the panels unlike sand that you'll forever be chasing out of your parts...

There will be lots of guys that will tell you to just go ahead and do it yourself, I am one of them but I also believe in buying the proper equipment to do the job.

 

[ffcobronco]

I have looked into soda vs. media blasting in Co. Soda was the most expensive and didnt remove as much as i would like and the price was around $800. The media blasting guys here quoted me $300-500 and will remove all the rust. I know that its possible to warp the metal with the heavier material, but these guys that do it day in and day out should be able to keep it from warping. I am in the process of removing my body for blasting and looking into a mobile company that was recomended by a couple of reputable body shops in my area.

 

[noreasteb]

In my experience, I found that if you want it done right, then do it yourself. I am working on a mild frame off. I removed the engine, tranny, fuel tanks and all underhood components and sent the truck to a "professional" blaster and had the frame and underside of the body sand blasted. When I got it back, there was a bunch of spots missed (no warped panels). I ended up buying a small pot blaster from tractor supply for about $100. I then completed the job and it came out really good. The media was cheap enough and the compressor worked fine (11 cfm @ 90 psi).
The so called professional job cost me $1,100 and was a huge waste of money.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[csjr]

Just like anything else, a job like this all depends on the man with the wand in his hand. A good technician, who cares, will do a good job regardless. Sadly, you have no control over this aspect unless you go to a small shop where there's only one tech and he is highly recommended. Good luck and let us all know how things work out.

 

[DuctTape]

Guh! It's like going to a doctor - you really don't know if they are any good or if you could do it better, but you'd have to train yourself to figure it out.

I have a heavy bias towards learning to do stuff myself for just that reason. Ok, that and it allows me to accumulate more tools .

Thanks for your comments guys. I guess the decision comes down to trusting a local shop vs being willing to pay for my own screwups and tool accumulation. This isn't going to be a show truck, so maybe another option to consider is just renting some sandblasting equip and dealing with the nooks and cranny issue. I'm going to be buying new front fenders, so really my only potential warping issues would be the rear quarters and doors i suppose.

One thing I'm not clear on is how much media I would expect to use. At $40/50lbs I imagine that cost could get up there quick.

Oh, and needabronco, thanks for the insights from someone that has done the research. I found a soda blasting hopper for what I thought was $280, so that's where I was coming from. I guess I'm missing some more tools I'd need (excluding the compressor).

 

[LEBCAndrew]

Seems like this soda blasting setup is less than $800.00: Blaster and so is the upgraded version: Better Blaster

 

[DuctTape]

Uh... ok I'm leaning heavily towards professional, if my maths are right (feel free to correct me if I got something wrong).

Rough estimate of square inches to be blasted: 12,000 sq in (excludes front fenders & bed, includes roof and undercarriage).

Eastwood's site has some media usage spreadsheets. For a 12 CFM setup, that thing uses 35 lbs of media/hr and does 180 sq in/hr. For my job, that would imply:

67 hours, 2,333 lbs of media (! really?), or $1800 bucks just for the media (at $40/50lb from Eastwood).

I bet needabronc is referring to blasters that recapture the media.

 

[u10072]

Not sure what part of the country your in but doing it yourself is insane and I consider myself Mr. DIY -- If someone is charging you more than $600 to blast a bronco they are raping you period! What you need to look for is someone who does car stuff and is a car guy if so your gonna be fie. One thing to remember that there are really no flat panels on a bronco and all those curves in the metal build a fair amount of strength in them. Anyway I would pay as it will take FOREVER to DIY. If you ever go to a professionals place and see their air compressor typically its either a rotary unit which is a $5-$8k compressor or is a diesel unit-- both I have no doubts you don't have nor a need for-- no one on this forum who has done it at home can get a professional result unless they are a pro. Do what you want but in the end just make sure you are getting a fair price as some people will try kill you on the price-- so always get the price range prior and you won't be disappointed.

 

[byson1]

I have done both soda blasting and sand blasting (my brother has the equipment). I've even done some dry ice blasting-nice with no clean up issues. If you're just doing a one time job find someone who can do it for you. As stated, the equipment is expensive. Anything that's selling cheap won't do the job. You need a BIG compressor and specialized pot for the soda. It also makes the biggest mess you've ever seen so you would not want to do it in a residential area. Sandblasting makes s huge mess too in an open area. I soda blasted some rust free body panels and they turned out great. If I were blasting any frame or heavy steel parts I would sand blast-it's much more effective and warping is not as much of an issue. If you do soda blast, be absolutely certain you clean the parts off thorughly pryor to painting. Paints and primers do not still to the residue.

 

[deltarat]

I think paid 700 to do the tub and outside and epoxy prime. They used black sand and there was no warpage. They said you have to hit it at an angle and not straight on. This was the guy that painted it also, so I guess he didn't want to screw up the stripping. I don't know if I would carry it to just any sand blaster. If you can find a paint shop that strips, I think they do a better job.

 

[trailpsycho]

Find a shop that all they do is media blasting...not just soda, not just sand, but all kinds. I paid right around $800 for mine, which included my tub (on a rotisserie, so they got everywhere), hood, grill, dash, doors, door panels, front fenders, tailgate...everything. It all looked like butter afterward. On some of the panels you could actually see the ink stamping from the original parts manufacture of the steel. It wasnt fast...they had it for a while, but that was mostly b/c they are so busy, b/c they are so good. Some things were done with heavier media and some things were done with soda, they know what needs what. Just make sure the people you talk to understand your concerns and the risks. Just make sure you knwo what media they und up using on which panels, so you can prep them properly afterward. As stated earlier, soda (sodium bicarbonate--which is a mild base--in the chemical sense) will leave a dry residue on the steel. This is good in some respects in that it can act as a barrier to quick oxidation, however, b/c it atomizes so small when it hits the surface of the steel, it can get down into the pores of the steel. It must be thoroughly removed or it can later cause lifting problems. Mild acid--such as a phosphate containing/etching "metal conditioners" are required to quench the base and leave a clean metal phosphate surface suitable for a lasting paint-job. Its not a super difficult process, but its extra time and labor...for you or your paint-guy. HTH.

Although, its less time/materials (for you or your body shop) than having to hand strip the truck witha DA to prep for primer/paint.

 

[JohnJohn]

I would highly recommend paying a pro shop that does media blasting all the time do blast it with something other than soda. I am not a big fan of soda because you have to power wash the metal to get the residue off before you prime and the last thing I want to put on my raw metal tub is water.
I paid $700 to have my tub media blasted in fine glass and put in epoxy primer. I was very very happy with the results.

Hear is a picture of my tub when I got it back from the blaster:
Picture of my tub after Media Blasting

I like to do everything myself also but in my opinion this is one thing that was worth every penny to have someone else do.

 

[needabronco]

You could easily blast a bronco in 5-6 hours and I'd bet no more than 225lbs of soda, probably 175+ but you don't want to run out... That would be a high side for soda. And NO you cannot reuse soda, it turns to powder when it hits the substrate, that is why it is more expensive than other methods.

As far as having to wash off your parts, it doesn't matter. Traditional media blasting causes your metal to immediately flash rust, that's why good shop immedietly apply an epoxy primer. With soda the residue actually protects the bare metal and does not require you to immedietly apply a primer. It has been advertised that you can wait up to 2 weeks with your project in bare metal because of this, although I wouldn't wait more than a couple of days... When you do clean off the residue as long as you apply the epoxy primer immedietly your fine.

A good commercial grade soda machine runs slightly north of $35K and most of that is the compressor. If you want to use the eastwood junk it would probably last for one or a few blast jobs, then it would be worthless, that's how most of those cheapo blast pots are. And they are nothing more than sand pots painted differently. I've seen a couple of decent home pots that were about $11-1200 but those were specifically for soda.

As U10072 stated, prices do vary, and so does the quality. I've seen a local guy's $400 blast job and it looked like he did $1000 dollars worth of body damage, and there was still paint and rust on the parts... In Phoenix where there's a media blaster about every 10 square miles you can get a good job done cheap. In my soda blasting research $800 is cheap, most soda jobs are around $1-1200 but that includes everything inside out, frame, axles, wheels, hood, fenders.... I was planning to do completes for around $8-900 myself, but the going rate up here for sand and plastic is $6-800 for a complete "good" job.

 

[DuctTape]

Thanks again for the great tips guys, I printed out your posts and will definitely use them when I take it to get blasted.

 

[73azbronco]

Pay a pro for two reasons 1) cost, 2) cancer.

I'll speak to the second one first, cancer. Google sand blasting cancer , or lung disease silicosis. One of the most deadly forms of cancer known, 100% fatal. Caused by the small particles screwing up your lungs. It's not that those particles get in their and make a cancer, it's that those little particles get in there and cut your lungs apart over years, you litterally drown. Why don't you ever hear about these guys? Their dead.

Pro shops use protection; full body suits with off site filtered air sources. Even the double filtered media breathers like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirator won't do it. You need this: http://www.blastcleaningservicesinc.com/bullard.htm

So, see the reason number 1 is really expensive?

 

[Blue71]

Have a pro do it. Price sounds about right and they have the right stuff to do it. They may use aluminum oxide for any rusty areas and or plastic media for stripping old paint off. After its been blasted to bare metal...ask them if they would spray phosphate on it. Its a light coating that keeps it from flash rusting while you move it back to your location. The place here doesn't even charge to do it. It also will keep any moisture or humidity from surface rusting anything until you start doing the body work or get a chance to prime it. Good Luck,

Blue71

 

[greatguy57078]

I checked it out awhile back. Whether you buy/ship it from California or Minnesota, the price is the same. It was right at $35 per bag, but you have to buy it by the pallet around $1350 shipped if I remember right.