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Factory vs Modified Ignition Question.

tbone722

Newbie
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10
I have had my 74 since high school (2000). I drove it four years. Then my brother drove it for 4 more years. Since then it has largely set in one of ours garages bc of laziness and dependability issues. I am trying to revive it now and am confused on the ignition system. It does appear the distributor wiring has been messed with before. It appears to have a Duraspark system of some kind. I think D4AZ-12A199-C (BLACK)? I have always assumed it was the factory motor but I am not sure. The motor is a 74 casting but maybe an August 73 stamp? If I'm reading everything correctly from the glovebox and previous posts it is an August of 73 build date. The vehicle line confuses me, but maybe from the Mavrick line? The wires in the engine bay are mostly in pretty bad shape (mainly the connectors), but the wires under the dash are in really good shape. If the ignition system is factory I would prefer just go back with the same model unless Duraspark II is just vastly superior. I am hoping somone can help me determine exactly what I have so that I can go about fixing it because I am in a rut and having trouble finding diagrams that match what I have.

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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,265
It appears to have a Duraspark system of some kind. I think D4AZ-12A199-C (BLACK)? I have always assumed it was the factory motor but I am not sure.

Could easily be the original motor still. And the distributor would be what is nowadays commonly called the Dura Spark, but in '74 (the first year that Broncos got it) they had not named it that yet. Other members know the sequence, but I think it was just termed "breakerless" (oops, there it is right in Viperwolf's diagram) before someone decided it had to have a catchy name to sell the new technology on the leery public. Leery of little "black boxes" under their hoods.
Yours would still have had the small distributor cap of old, but all the new electronic trigger mechanism and, in your case the Black module.
So that could all be correct so far.

The motor is a 74 casting but maybe an August 73 stamp?
The vehicle line confuses me, but maybe from the Mavrick line?

That's not out of line at all. An engine cast in August of '73 would almost certainly have gone into a '74 model year vehicle. Engines pre-date their vehicles anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months. And August is the most common cutoff date between model years anyway.
What month was your Bronco built according to the certification label on the driver's B-pillar/striker post?

And engines put in trucks, especially Broncos, were not Bronco-specific engines. So the engineering number of a common Ford 302 would have been from a common lineup. Such as Maverick, or one of several other categories. So your part number searching is not steering you wrong. It's just that 302's were not truck-specific.

If I'm reading everything correctly from the glovebox and previous posts it is an August of 73 build date.

You talking about the Bronco now, or just the engine casting date still?
The warranty plate on the glovebox door would not indicate anything about the engine. Only the vehicle. The VIN gives you a known build sequence, but you'd probably have to get a Marti Report to know the exact day that your Bronco was produced. Some members have the info down to the day on some model years, but I don't think they have documented all of them.

The wires in the engine bay are mostly in pretty bad shape (mainly the connectors), but the wires under the dash are in really good shape. If the ignition system is factory I would prefer just go back with the same model unless Duraspark II is just vastly superior. I am hoping someone can help me determine exactly what I have so that I can go about fixing it because I am in a rut and having trouble finding diagrams that match what I have.

Which connections are bad? If the ignition wiring, you can easily swap out the old (I hate those) connectors for something easier to use like a Weatherpack or similar. But you'd have to also cut the connectors off of your two ignition modules if you wanted to keep them.
Or you can buy a pre-made Dura Spark II harness from several sources (Painless, or us for example), pick up a Blue module and just use that from now on.

I don't actually see anything wrong with keeping your current Black ignition modules if they work. It's just that the Blue ones were the last hurrah of the Dura Spark, and are usually the easiest to find and least expensive as well.
Your distributor would stay the same, unless it's worn out from age. Check it and see. But even a new replacement is going to be just like yours except for no guarantees it will have the same timing curve.

I would upgrade to the larger cap of the later Dura Spark systems though. At least when it comes time to replace the spark plug wires, go with a modern set and the larger, wider spaced cap with cap-adapter and use that instead. I prefer them with their male terminals even if the larger diameter was not an advantage.
You'll need the cap adapter, the new larger cap and new rotor. And the wires of course. And that's it. The distributor body was identical to older models, so the cap adapter snaps right on to your old distributor.

Replacing the connectors is not the "wrong" way to do this, but it would mean that from now on you'd always have to replace the connectors on any new modules you buy. Including one out in the middle of nowhere without your wiring tools.
So even though I prefer Weatherpacks WAY more than those dreaded Dura Spark connectors, there is a very good argument for getting the new harness and keeping that type of connector for future use.
Nobody (that I know of) is offering reproduction harnesses with the correct orientation for the eight or ten other Dura Spark models. Just the modules with the Blue strain relief.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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tbone722

Newbie
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10
Wow, thanks everyone for the info. I was going to reply to each comment separately but some comments may overlap.

I did try checking continuity on the red and blue wire. I could not get anything from switch to solenoid (brown wire on I post was good) . I could run a new wire externally in place of the blue/red from switch to solenoid and the key would turn the motor over. I even exposed the blue/red wire behind the glovebox and still nothing. Is it possible this diagram doesn't take into account the automatic transmission safety switch?

The other issue with the diagram is on both plugs the # of wires in and out match and that is not the case on mine. There is an extra black wire connected to the box externally?

I'll add some photos for the glovebox and pillar label. According to the DSO it might be a San Jose, California Bronco? So did 1974 only have the new "breakerless ignition" IF they were CA Broncos?

I also noticed the BroncOhio says 4700 GVW but the stamp says 4900? Typo?

My father in law owns a small auto part store and had previously sent me the replacement solenoid, black module, bigger cap and rotor, new wires, coil pigtail, and a new coil FD476T. The does not appear to be the correct coil for my system originally. He has completely redone several Mustangs so he knows his stuff, but not sure on Broncos. Since Paul stated there is no replacement harness for my box I seem to only have a couple options.

1.Convert to blue DS 2. I would get new blue module and harness. Coil he gave me might work?

2.Try to put everything back like it was with the new parts and start the diagnostics over again based on the new info everyone has provided.

3. Drive it back to California, sale it, and drive back in a Telsa. JK

Thanks again,
Dallas
 

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73azbronco

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7,974
if you are having running issues you stated it sat for years, gas condition?
 
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tbone722

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Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
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I should clarify it has ran well enough to pull in and out of the garage or take around the block twice a year the whole time. It was however not running well enough to take any farther than that. At first the "key" was giving troubles. It would do nothing one second, start fine the next, and sometimes crank but not fire until going from the start back to run position. That resulted in the kind gift from the father in law. However, the last time I tried to start it the positive cable on the left side of the solenoid started smoking. Cable and solenoid were trashed. As a result I examined all the cables and noticed half the plastic on the starter to solenoid was completely corroded. So replacing all the battery cables became project number one. Once that was done I was back where I was prior to the gifts.
 

Viperwolf1

Contributor
electron whisperer
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
24,341
I did try checking continuity on the red and blue wire. I could not get anything from switch to solenoid (brown wire on I post was good) . I could run a new wire externally in place of the blue/red from switch to solenoid and the key would turn the motor over. I even exposed the blue/red wire behind the glovebox and still nothing. Is it possible this diagram doesn't take into account the automatic transmission safety switch?

The other issue with the diagram is on both plugs the # of wires in and out match and that is not the case on mine. There is an extra black wire connected to the box externally?

I'll add some photos for the glovebox and pillar label. According to the DSO it might be a San Jose, California Bronco? So did 1974 only have the new "breakerless ignition" IF they were CA Broncos?

I also noticed the BroncOhio says 4700 GVW but the stamp says 4900? Typo?


Thanks again,
Dallas

The NSS isn't included in the diagram but it is part of the start circuit so it needs to be working if you want the engine to crank.

The black wire is going to a noise suppression capacitor. Ignore it.

In the 3 pin connector it looks like the one pin has been pulled out by the wire. You need it to be in place.

BroncOhio has lots of errors.

I believe all '74 CA Broncos were breakerless. Some other 49 state ones were also.
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
yes 1974 California and Florida and I believe Virginia were Duraspark breaker less ignition with black modules. all other were 49 state points ignition.
when looking at the connectors for the modules the 3 pin connector was modified to 2 pin on some aftermarket modules its not broken or missing they just left it out on purpose.
my last module had a note for this included in the box.
 

Viperwolf1

Contributor
electron whisperer
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Aug 23, 2007
Messages
24,341
when looking at the connectors for the modules the 3 pin connector was modified to 2 pin on some aftermarket modules its not broken or missing they just left it out on purpose.
my last module had a note for this included in the box.

Doh! Ironically, I also included that note in my drawing above.
 
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tbone722

Newbie
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10
Doh! Ironically, I also included that note in my drawing above.

I see that now... that and the explanation of the black wire clears everything up. Lesson learned on the NSS. Mocked everything back up and the key bumped the starter successfully. Hopefully I am turning a corner. Thanks again.
 
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