Pretty sure I ruined my rebuilt motor

[bobscott]

So I took off early from work yesterday to break my motor in. Hopeing to take my daughter for a ride when she got home from school. Not sure what happened but being dumb I overheated it and I think killed it. It was filled with coolant, fan and shroud were on. I even had a barrel fan set in front of the truck cranked on high. It started right up, I took it to 2000 rmp and it was holding a bit high 220 degree or so. I took my eye off the temp gauge for a few minutes to watch the tack and the motor sounded like a cylinder stopped. I looked at the temp gauge and it was pegged. I let it completely cool and it restarted but hard and wouldn't stay running. it also wouldn't build much oil pressure. Today I pulled the distributor and the oil smelled burnt bad. It was hot as the headers were glowing. the motor does turn over but it won't start.

All this said after a 12 pack last night I have resigned myself to the fact I screwed something up and will need a rebuild or new motor. What to do. I am going to find a shop to swap this motor out and would like some input. Should I go with a roller? I have the bc serp kit on the front and an nv3550. I also have an affordable kit on it. Would going to a roller make any of these not fit? any other recommendations?

Thanks

 

[bigjhoov]

Is it a flat tappet or roller motor? Did you prime the oil pump before startup?

 

[bobscott]

Flat. I did prime with the tool, then turned the motor over with the coil wire off.

 

[Hazegray]

Check the simple things first. Compression check, etc... That would help determine if you warped/blew a head gasket.

Do you have a Mechanical oil pressure gauge with the clear tubing hose. the hard line or stock electrical? If it's aftermarket with the clear hose, might have melted it closed. Also, what ignition are you running?

 

[Timmy390]

That really sucks. When I broke in my 390FE the pucker factor was HIGH. I was very worried because of all the flat tappet cam failures during break in. That's the main reason I went roller cam and not a flat tappet on my 351W I'm building.

Did you adjust the timing once you first fired it up? Glowing headers is a sign of running way lean or timing being retarded. Did you add any break in lube? EOS or other?

Could have had air in the coolant system and caused a hotspot.

Tim

 

[Broncobowsher]

If you tear into it inspect the orientation of the head gaskets very carefully, especially the passenger side. It is possible to one (or both but never heard of anyone doing that) on backwards and block the coolant flow through the head.

From the description I would probably do the big job and pull it out and take it apart. Something isn't right. Right now it will only be a lot of guessing, it could be, might be that, and check stuff. Be prepared for a lot of questions about what was used. What waterpump? What pulleys? Did it boil over or just peg the gauge?

 

[bobscott]

It won't turn over to do a compression check. It did turn over with the starter last night. I hear some clanking around in the oil pan. I think it is done for.

At any rate what should I replace It with? I want something that will work with all the after market stuff I have. I think my main question would be given the after market stuff I have is there a problem going roller? Is there any other reason to stay with a flat tappet? I am not worried about keeping it stock. Just want what is best to daily drive.

Thanks

 

[TN1776]

I second the recommendation to pull the motor and start inspecting. It's a bummer but something is not right. All recommendations given are good ones. Its possible that something was not set up correctly during re-assembly.
When I broke in my flat tappet cam (brand new crate motor) I was a nervous wreck. I had coolant leaks, setting the timing was a bit of a challenge, it ran hot (not as hot as yours but hotter than I was expecting), all the "normal" stuff that happens during a first firing.
If it's a goner, a roller block from a donor would be a good starting point. I really don't like flat tappet cams given that most of the oil on the market doesn't sufficiently protect them.
Did you do the rebuild or did a shop do it? A conversation with the builder is in order for sure. If its a good shop they might help you out with the cost.

This really sucks to read about. Sorry to hear.

 

[bigjhoov]

Did you pay to have it rebuilt or did you do it yourself. I would make builder aware of the issue if possible. It might be worth it to have a 3rd party tear it down with you and the builder present to assure an ubiased opinion of the situation.

 

[bobscott]

I paid to have it built. I will talk to the builder if it was something he did.

A bit of good news. Was confused why it turned over last night but it wouldn't today by hand. Remembered I pulled the distributor, so yup oil pump shaft popped out. Looks pretty decent on the bottom end. Will do a compression test tomorrow.

 

[cldonley]

Sounds to me like a builder-induced problem. If it had coolant, oil and oil pressure it shouldn't have done that. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Before you tear into it too far (any more than you have already done), get the builder involved.

 

[DJs74]

Yes, yes & yes... What Broncobowsher said. Whoever has the ownership of the assembly needs to be involved before you go any further. Any respectable engine builder should jump in there with you and help with the diagnosis and fix. I wouldn't consider another motor just yet until your builder has a chance to weigh in, if they are included in the tear down and see their mistake, they might make it good on their own. If you tear it down without them and something gets damaged during the disassembly process... You are kinda on your own at that point and the builder misses the opportunity to see the "uh-oh, look what I did wrong" moment


Good luck,
DJs74

 

[71broncman]

Did you replace the water pump with a reverse rotation pump when you installed the serpentine system? If not, that would cause it to overheat. I'm throwing that out there to cover everything that would cause it to heat so fast.
Mark.

 

[Hozr]

Between the rapid spike in temperature and being a new build/break in I would guess the coolant system wasn't completely bled of air. I would hazard to guess there was an air pocket at your temp sender and it was reading artificially low until enough water circulated to it showing the true temp. A quick temp spike before cutting off isn't enough to make the headers glow it must have been sustained. I would also guess a timing issue or running lean to make the headers glow.

Definitely do all you can to get the burnt oil out before trying to turn it over then start looking deeper. I would guess it will need head, intake, and exhaust gaskets at the minimum. Check the main bearings and see if the are cooked.

 

[partsloco]

I would say first make sure you have clean oil in it. Use a oil pump priming tool and see if you can build some oil pressure. take off a valve cover and make sure oil is coming out of rocker arms. If the oil is bad like you say it could have messed up you oil pressure sender. Do a compression test and make sure the cylinders are pretty much even. Check for spark. Make sure you carb is getting fuel.

 

[bobscott]

Between the rapid spike in temperature and being a new build/break in I would guess the coolant system wasn't completely bled of air. I would hazard to guess there was an air pocket at your temp sender and it was reading artificially low until enough water circulated to it showing the true temp. A quick temp spike before cutting off isn't enough to make the headers glow it must have been sustained. I would also guess a timing issue or running lean to make the headers glow.

Definitely do all you can to get the burnt oil out before trying to turn it over then start looking deeper. I would guess it will need head, intake, and exhaust gaskets at the minimum. Check the main bearings and see if the are cooked.

I was thinking something along these lines. It is the only reasonable explanation why the temp went from ok to super hot. The coolant was maybe 3" or so low in the radiator when I checked it yesterday. The odd thing is that I did have the heater running full blast while breaking the motor in (one more way to shed heat in my mind) and it was blowing hot so that tells me that coolant was flowing. Maybe the thermostat didn't open?

I was also thinking that the motor must have been running lean to get this hot. I have the sherman efi tank. I put a pressure gauge on the line yesterday and turned the key to the on position. I am not registering any fuel pressure. There was fuel in the lines but no pressure built just having the key in the run position. Is this normal? Would it only build pressure while the engine is actually running? I have been doing some poking around since this issue and see that people have said they need to cut the sock of the fuel pickup with these tanks.

Either way the motor is indeed done. The oil was milky and I have zero compression on one and two. I didn't bother to check any other cylinders. As hot as this thing got I want a complete rebuild or a new crate motor. I plan on daily driving this truck and have a camping trip planned that is 12 hours away this summer. I want this thing to be as realiable as possible with a truck of this age.

I hear what everyone says about taking it back to the builder. The issue is I really just want this done and over with. He took 3 months to rebuild the first time and I can only imagine this time would be similar or worse especially if we are in a pissing match. I really just want to pay someone to drop a crate motor in and give it back to me running in time for Townsend this year. With a new baby and being short handed at work I just don't have time for Bronco building in the near term. I talked to a garage this weekend but he was talking about an Autozone motor. The garage has good ratings online and all, but the Autozone motor idea scared the hell out of me. If anyone has any good shop recommendations in the Nashville area please let me know.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Hozr]

The lack of compression could be due to several things at this point but it sounds like you have a game plan. I'm guessing warped head (at the least) is where you are losing compression. If it got that hot who knows what a rebuild will bring; It may require as much machining and parts as a new engine.

 

[Timmy390]

I talked to a garage this weekend but he was talking about an Autozone motor. The garage has good ratings online and all, but the Autozone motor idea scared the hell out of me. If anyone has any good shop recommendations in the Nashville area please let me know.

Several people on this site running engines from Promar
http://www.promarengine.com/engine-...ear=1971&make=Ford&model=Bronco&submodel=Base

Jasper rebuild a dang fine engine.

Tim

 

[66broncofan]

Sorry to hear about your motor loss, that stinks! I'd say take it back to the builder for the rebuild and at the same time get the crate motor your talking about and drop it in. After the rebuild on the old motor you can sell it.
Chances are the builder will not rebuild the motor for various lame reasons like he didn't install the valve covers or water pump or something. But it's worth a shot at getting him to make it right.