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Ring Gear bolts pre-drilled for safety wire

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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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9" arbs are week I see that failure often

If you are insistent on an arb you need to go to a Dana or 14 bolt

I drive this a lot on the street and I live in ice/snow country so the ARB (selectable) is a must. ARB took good care of me even tho this one is 8 yrs old which replaced the other 5 yr old one that replaced the 7yr old one...you get the picture...they've worked well but I can't have this happening...
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Just picked up my replacement ARB and they stress using original 1 1/4" Trak-Loc bolts (which I used) so that's what I'm going to use again. Sent an email to the Pirate guy with the locking tabs and if needed I will tack each bolt head in place. Least it would do is create a "bump" that would keep the bolt head from loosening. Not a heat issue with a tack-done it in other instances and worked great.

I don't change ratios or gears often like a racer so for that next gear change I'm doing (next winter), I'll just grind the tack welds off...

Thanks for the info ...
 
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ntsqd

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I'm all against welding on hardware except as a very, very last resort, and I don't think you're there yet. Even just a tack-weld destroys the heat-treat for some distance around it, weakening the bolt. I see that as counter-productive.

Those tabs will address the bolts working loose assuming they don't stretch, but I'd still Lock-Tite them with high temperature red, my Lock-tite design ref says that's 272, "High Strength/High Temperature" which is 450°f service. Use their primer too.
If the bolts fail then I'd be looking at either something from ARP or F911 depending on which fit better and/or was stronger.
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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IF I can get the tabs... that solves my dilema on whether to tack weld...

I've been chatting with Ultra 4 guys, KOH guys, the majority of them have ALL had 9" ring gear bolts back out...many of them fail in just one race. It's not a D60 or 14 bolt issue, it's 9" thing. Shock load, heat, etc... I guess I've been lucky having mine last this long...what a royal PITA to have to pull the rear every few months to check torque...really??

It's a common issue, they all use the best locktite, primer, super clean the parts, they just fail.

Anyway, I'll post up whether I can get the tabs...super tight clearance already with the ARB case half clearing the load bolt without having metal tabs whirling around...
 
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sykanr0ng

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Some of the guys on a Pirate thread were saying that Loctite may be causing problems by setting before the bolt is all the way down and to the needed torque.
 

ntsqd

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If they're using the wrong product I guess that's possible. The 272 I suggested has a fixture time of 30 mins. Is it taking them longer than that to get all of the ring gear bolts torqued?

Do any of the ARP bolts fit? Like: http://www.arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=1995

Drive doesn't happen by bolts in shear, its from friction generated by the clamp load of the torqued bolts. The shock loading is over-coming the existing clamp load. Better bolts can possibly be torqued higher so long as the ring gear's threads hold up. Likely drag racers have long ago solved this problem, what is their solution and would it work here?
 
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nvrstuk

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Not sure Tom...these Ultra4 and KOH teams are pretty well versed in this stuff... I can safely say they have a LOT more background than I have... lol

I'm pretty sure if we are all using the wrong product and they make a product that WOULD work, someone would find it. These guys are good...
Thinking that drag racing for 5 seconds is a lot different than what Ultra4/KOH teams do in a competition... so I think we have totally different applications...

I'll check out the ARP bolts and am still waiting for confirmation on whether tabs are available...

I've used Locktite 272 with my typical cleaning sequence for the past 10 yrs on ring gear bolts...starting to use 272 on all my driveline ubolts, nuts, shaft/flange nuts/bolts...you name it. Stuff is working loose MUCH more often than it used to...it ain't my torque wrench-shock load is my bet.
 
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ntsqd

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I don't think anything done in the dirt can approach what happens in one drag start. Fuel cars don't use 9's & haven't for a quite a while, but when I was involved almost every other class did. No doubt what happens in the dirt happens more frequently, but not with any more HP or with better traction (thinking Ultra4 & similar racing, NOT rock crawling). Factor in the different tire sizes and the one time loading of a drag start ("launch" as they call it) should be a significantly larger one-time loading, where U4 or similar is more of a fatigue type, repetitive loading. And maybe that's enough of a difference to make a drag solution not last in this application.

Speaking of them, when was the last time your torque wrench was calibrated? When I had just started crewing on a Boss 302 powered Super Comp RED (Alcohol injection, Vertex mag, SBF C6; best of 8.48 & 168 mph) they had just gone thru several sets of con-rods. Turned out their torque wrench had suddenly gone out of Calibration. Ever since then I've used a beam type since speed isn't important & I can easily detect an out of Cal condition.
 

sykanr0ng

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I don't think anything done in the dirt can approach what happens in one drag start. Fuel cars don't use 9's & haven't for a quite a while, but when I was involved almost every other class did. No doubt what happens in the dirt happens more frequently, but not with any more HP or with better traction (thinking Ultra4 & similar racing, NOT rock crawling). Factor in the different tire sizes and the one time loading of a drag start ("launch" as they call it) should be a significantly larger one-time loading, where U4 or similar is more of a fatigue type, repetitive loading. And maybe that's enough of a difference to make a drag solution not last in this application.

Speaking of them, when was the last time your torque wrench was calibrated? When I had just started crewing on a Boss 302 powered Super Comp RED (Alcohol injection, Vertex mag, SBF C6; best of 8.48 & 168 mph) they had just gone thru several sets of con-rods. Turned out their torque wrench had suddenly gone out of Calibration. Ever since then I've used a beam type since speed isn't important & I can easily detect an out of Cal condition.

Weren't we just talking about taking too long and the Loctite setting before the bolts were to proper torque?
 

ntsqd

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I did post that according to Lock-tite their 272 formula has a fixture time of 30 minutes. Even I can get a dozen or so bolts torqued within that time period.
 
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nvrstuk

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I'll check my torque wrench calibration...worth checking...
 

ntsqd

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I understand that Snap-On will Calibrate any of their product for a nominal fee. Don't know about any other brands. I know of one shop that has two Snap-On torque wrenches that they keep in rotation, those get calibrated every 3 months or so. They're a bucks-up business with a big reputation to protect and that's one of the ways they do that.
 

sykanr0ng

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Stage 8 is now making locking fasteners for 9 inch ring bolts, but the look like they will only work with differentials that have flat rear flanges.
 

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ntsqd

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Seems like a lot of effort to avoid drilling some holes or buying bolts already drilled. I've no idea how close to the edge they are, but it seems like clocking a bolt head to index in their tab could take it out of the elastic and into the plastic deformation region. That wouldn't be good.
 
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