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Steering drop brackets and suspension

sprdv1

Contributor
REBEL
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
81,734
Agree with Paul's suggestions... But I would prioritize removing the "stabilizer" first. It adds other forces that will not help getting to the root of your problem (in some cases it IS the problem).

yeah might would go that same route as well
 
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OP
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EarlybroncoHI

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
49
Loc.
Honokaa, Hawaii
Update. So after going through all the steering components thoroughly I boiled it down to bad tie rod ends. Which I know is shocking due to the fact they have so few miles on them. I removed the drag link end attached to the pitman arm so I could recenter the pitman and found that the tierod end on it had worn a notch inside the pocket of the ball.. which would stop the free movement of it. I took the rest of the tierods off and they all had the same issue.. so some how the must have been getting binded which created the weird worn notch in the ball. I ended up ordering a Heim set up for my bronco that I installed yesterday.. only took it for a quick test drive and I didn’t feel the random death pull that I was experiencing.

The thing I do notice now is that my steering is very sensitive. Almost wish I still had my old steering box that was a higher ratio.. I think that would probably help with the sensitivity.. any thoughts one that would be greatly appreciated. I’m also thinking that my coils and leaf springs are worn out. So when I make turns on whindy road the whole body sways back and forth. I don’t know just a guess
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Do you also have a smaller steering wheel? That coupled with the quicker box will definitely feel twitchy. But most actually do get used to it after some driving and say they like it. Some never like it, but it's probably worth using it for awhile.

Another thing that can increase that feeling is too much air pressure in the tires and too much (or sometimes too little) toe-in.

Glad you found the worn parts though. We see it a lot here unfortunately. Not sure what the common denominator is, because it's hard to believe that something like a tie-rod end is falling prey to the same quality issues that other parts (especially electrical parts) seem to be lately.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Oh, and one thought on the excess and odd wear. Sometimes the stabilizer shock can be a funky thing. Depending on how it's mounted and if it's working properly in both directions, they can impart some "rotation" to the tie rod through the drag link. This additional rotation will wear the rod ends more quickly than normal.
We see it a lot with the "GM 1-ton" steering linkage conversions. In those cases it's not the stabilizer shocks (which are usually removed in those cases) but the angle that the drag link attaches to the tie rod.

What brand steering linkage did you go with?

Paul
 

sprdv1

Contributor
REBEL
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
81,734
hey Paul,

so the bronco is a 1973, it had 33X12.5 BFG MT's, tires are old but in good shape. i remember talking to you about messuring the lift and it was 10 inches in the front which would be 3-3.5" lift right? the tire pressure is blow the suggested pressure by 5-10 pounds i believe. so for ive changed radius arm bushings, C bushings to 7 degree pitch, trac bar bushings, drop pitman arm, dropped the trac bar, put a Borgeson steering box, new steering pump, new steering stabilizer (made a custom drop bracket so its level) its got disc brakes, not sure what the knuckles are from. its 48" wide from center of tie rod nuts.

after i put the stabilizer drop bracket i took it for a test drive and it felt a little better but still randomly pulls to the passanger side. seems life if sticks turning that direction a little. so when i go around a long right hand turn it keeps pulling whilke i straighten back out. and kind of jerks back into place. sounds fun huh hahaha. it has new shocks but i know the rear leaf springs are shot so probably the coils are to. an other thing on the list to change. iv e also concidered getting the sway bar kit. you think it would help?

guess the first thing if to figure out why my bronco is having steering issues.

one thing at a time for sure..
 

sprdv1

Contributor
REBEL
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
81,734
Oh, and one thought on the excess and odd wear. Sometimes the stabilizer shock can be a funky thing. Depending on how it's mounted and if it's working properly in both directions, they can impart some "rotation" to the tie rod through the drag link. This additional rotation will wear the rod ends more quickly than normal.
We see it a lot with the "GM 1-ton" steering linkage conversions. In those cases it's not the stabilizer shocks (which are usually removed in those cases) but the angle that the drag link attaches to the tie rod.

What brand steering linkage did you go with?

Right....
 
OP
OP
E

EarlybroncoHI

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
49
Loc.
Honokaa, Hawaii
Oh, and one thought on the excess and odd wear. Sometimes the stabilizer shock can be a funky thing. Depending on how it's mounted and if it's working properly in both directions, they can impart some "rotation" to the tie rod through the drag link. This additional rotation will wear the rod ends more quickly than normal.
We see it a lot with the "GM 1-ton" steering linkage conversions. In those cases it's not the stabilizer shocks (which are usually removed in those cases) but the angle that the drag link attaches to the tie rod.

What brand steering linkage did you go with?

Paul

I think the stabilizer was causing the tierods to wear funny.. I ended up getting the Heim set up from James Duff.. it’s a nice set up unless you have to adjust your toe in.. cause the welded on bracket makes it so you can’t spin the shaft. You you have to unbolt at least one side.. oh well haha
 
OP
OP
E

EarlybroncoHI

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
49
Loc.
Honokaa, Hawaii
Do you also have a smaller steering wheel? That coupled with the quicker box will definitely feel twitchy. But most actually do get used to it after some driving and say they like it. Some never like it, but it's probably worth using it for awhile.

Another thing that can increase that feeling is too much air pressure in the tires and too much (or sometimes too little) toe-in.

Glad you found the worn parts though. We see it a lot here unfortunately. Not sure what the common denominator is, because it's hard to believe that something like a tie-rod end is falling prey to the same quality issues that other parts (especially electrical parts) seem to be lately.

Paul

Air pressure is pretty low.. 22 in the front and 25 in the back. I set my toe in at 1/8. I will change it and aim for 1/4 this time. Thanks again for all the help!
 
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OP
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EarlybroncoHI

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
49
Loc.
Honokaa, Hawaii
Update.. steering still randomly pulls me to the right, f$&%! I’ve now put a new 3 1/2 in lift from Wild Horses, new Heim steering from Duff. Now I’m going to change ball joins u-joints and bearings. That will make everything in the front end brand new.. cross my fingers this will be the fix..

Any suggestions on torque specs for the hubs??
I’ve read a lot of different things
 

savage

Contributor
Bronco Nut
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
2,482
Loc.
Renton
Update.. steering still randomly pulls me to the right, f$&%! I’ve now put a new 3 1/2 in lift from Wild Horses, new Heim steering from Duff. Now I’m going to change ball joins u-joints and bearings. That will make everything in the front end brand new.. cross my fingers this will be the fix..

Any suggestions on torque specs for the hubs??
I’ve read a lot of different things
l'm not sure but are you still running the same tires? Have you moved the back tires to the front and front tires to the back ,to see if it drives different.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Any suggestions on torque specs for the hubs?

You mean for doing the front wheel bearings?
If so, then when you re-pack the bearings with grease (whether new bearings, or the old ones if they are still good) then these are the steps per the book:

1. Bearings installed, tighten the inner adjusting nut (the one with the small pin facing outward) down to 50lbs while turning the wheel/hub. This sets the bearing and squeezes out excess grease.

2. Back off the nut 90° (ignore how loose the bearings are and just move on to the next step).

3. Install the locking ring with one of the holes fitted perfectly over the pin on the inner nut. If it does not line up perfectly, you can flip the washer around. If it still does not fit you can turn the inner nut a tiny bit to make the pin fall into one of the holes.

4. Outer lock nut torqued to 100lbs

5. For me the last step is also to check bearing free-play. You can do this with a dial-indicator, or just by feel since most don't have one of those tools in their garage it seems like.
For the "feel" method, when you rock your hub/drum/rotor/wheel back and forth you should just barely be able to sense a slight movement in the bearings. And they should roll freely.
If you don't feel any little "tick tick" or "snick snick" if you prefer, when testing, then it might be too tight. And if it's notably harder to turn than it was when they were loose, then it's way too tight. But if you did the first steps properly then it's rarely too tight.

Step #4 is where you probably see more of the variations. I've seen anywhere from 30lbs to 70lbs on YouTube, and 70lbs to 200lbs in shop manuals. And they talk about "preload" on the bearings on YouTube a lot too.
You need to get AT LEAST 70lbs on that outer nut for it to stay tight over the long haul when driving, and there is no such thing as preload on these bearings for our use.

For me, 100lbs seems to just be better. And it's also the more common rating in the books. Typically written as "100-120 pounds" or something like that. But they're big nuts and can take a ton of torque, so don't skimp. Some of the discrepancies might come from the difference between an F150/Bronco and an F250/350 as well. Many of those are up near the 200lb rating and even above.
My go-to reading for the Broncos is 100lbs and it's never let me down.
After the final torque is when you can test your free-play.

Paul
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,916
I think the stabilizer was causing the tierods to wear funny.. I ended up getting the Heim set up from James Duff.. it’s a nice set up unless you have to adjust your toe in.. cause the welded on bracket makes it so you can’t spin the shaft. You you have to unbolt at least one side.. oh well haha

James Duff SRE steering kit is the nicest one I found.
That welded-on saddle is the difference maker.
It is the old Stone Crusher line of steering linkage.
It is great.

Please get your tire pressure down to about 25 psi front and 20psi back. Also make sure you have atleast a little more toe-in than oem calls for. It needs to be a little more with bigger tires.

Reach out to MonsterMike here on cb.
He can send you a quick video on how to "cock your heims". Its important. Its smart. But you don't have to do it yet. Its a fine tuning procedure.
 
OP
OP
E

EarlybroncoHI

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
49
Loc.
Honokaa, Hawaii
You mean for doing the front wheel bearings?
If so, then when you re-pack the bearings with grease (whether new bearings, or the old ones if they are still good) then these are the steps per the book:

1. Bearings installed, tighten the inner adjusting nut (the one with the small pin facing outward) down to 50lbs while turning the wheel/hub. This sets the bearing and squeezes out excess grease.

2. Back off the nut 90° (ignore how loose the bearings are and just move on to the next step).

3. Install the locking ring with one of the holes fitted perfectly over the pin on the inner nut. If it does not line up perfectly, you can flip the washer around. If it still does not fit you can turn the inner nut a tiny bit to make the pin fall into one of the holes.

4. Outer lock nut torqued to 100lbs

5. For me the last step is also to check bearing free-play. You can do this with a dial-indicator, or just by feel since most don't have one of those tools in their garage it seems like.
For the "feel" method, when you rock your hub/drum/rotor/wheel back and forth you should just barely be able to sense a slight movement in the bearings. And they should roll freely.
If you don't feel any little "tick tick" or "snick snick" if you prefer, when testing, then it might be too tight. And if it's notably harder to turn than it was when they were loose, then it's way too tight. But if you did the first steps properly then it's rarely too tight.

Step #4 is where you probably see more of the variations. I've seen anywhere from 30lbs to 70lbs on YouTube, and 70lbs to 200lbs in shop manuals. And they talk about "preload" on the bearings on YouTube a lot too.
You need to get AT LEAST 70lbs on that outer nut for it to stay tight over the long haul when driving, and there is no such thing as preload on these bearings for our use.

For me, 100lbs seems to just be better. And it's also the more common rating in the books. Typically written as "100-120 pounds" or something like that. But they're big nuts and can take a ton of torque, so don't skimp. Some of the discrepancies might come from the difference between an F150/Bronco and an F250/350 as well. Many of those are up near the 200lb rating and even above.
My go-to reading for the Broncos is 100lbs and it's never let me down.
After the final torque is when you can test your free-play.

Paul
Once again thank you Paul!! Always coming in with the great write ups and advise! Haven’t got the ball joints u joints and bearings done yet.. 10 trips to different parts stores and finally got the right parts.. turns out I have a 1970 Dana 44 which takes different ball joints than pretty much 90% of them haha hope to get it all finished this week.
 
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OP
E

EarlybroncoHI

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
49
Loc.
Honokaa, Hawaii
James Duff SRE steering kit is the nicest one I found.
That welded-on saddle is the difference maker.
It is the old Stone Crusher line of steering linkage.
It is great.

Please get your tire pressure down to about 25 psi front and 20psi back. Also make sure you have atleast a little more toe-in than oem calls for. It needs to be a little more with bigger tires.

Reach out to MonsterMike here on cb.
He can send you a quick video on how to "cock your heims". Its important. Its smart. But you don't have to do it yet. Its a fine tuning procedure.

I do love the welded saddle! It’s awesome! I watched the video on cocking the heims and I tried a couple times but they ended up being forced straight.. try again when I put them back on.
 

hankjr

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
1,760
turns out I have a 1970 Dana 44 which takes different ball joints than pretty much 90% of them haha hope to get it all finished this week.

howdy. how did you figure this out? what was the problem that drove you to seek other ball joints?

Hank
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
turns out I have a 1970 Dana 44 which takes different ball joints than pretty much 90% of them.

Does that mean you have a kingpin setup rather than ball-joints? Are there four bolts holding the top cap over a bearing, or just the single big nut on top of a ball joint?
Either way, we've just GOT to see this thing. There were no '70 Dana 44's on Broncos that had ball joints that I've ever seen. The oddball found mostly on '70's was a Dana 44 center with a Dana 30 outer kingpin setup.
If that's what you have we'd love to see the BOM number that's stamped into the tube.
We've been talking about them for years, but very few have come up here.

I watched the video on cocking the heims and I tried a couple times but they ended up being forced straight.

Isn't that the point of cocking the ends in the first place? To have them forced straight under use?
Sounds like I need to watch the video (again?) to see.

Paul
 
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