I have a 69 with 3 1/2" lift. It had the F100 power steering box Dana 30 with stock steering leakage running 33/12.50/15 tires. It drove great. Decided to swap out the Dana 30 for a 44. Got a Dana 44, the guy who had it did a 1 ton Chevy tie rod ends and put them on top of the knuckles. With that set up I had to go with a stock power steering box. Got a box and had it rebuilt and changed to a 4 turn by West Texas Offroad. Put it in and it drove bad. Got the trac bar and drag link the same angle and it is better but something is still not right. The trac bar and drag link are different lengths. On a flat smooth road it goes straight and is fine. It feels weird when I go into a corner. It doesn't seem to have any bump steer. It's like the steering box is to tight. The steering wheel will not move on its own. I have to move it so I'm always moving it left & right a little in corner or when the road is bad. All tie rod ends are good, new trac bar bushings & C bushings. Just trying to get it to steer like it did with the F100 box and Dana 30. Thanks for any help.
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Steering problems
- Thread starter Bad72
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- Nov 3, 2003
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Hey Bad. Sounds like you're doing things right, but running into the usual gremlins that seem to haunt our old rigs.
Couple of things come to mind. New box not centered, or something binding like a bad ball-joint or something.
You can test the latter easily, by removing the tie-rod ends from the knuckles and turn them yourself by hand. If they're smooth and easy (takes about 10 to 30 pounds of force) you're good. If either or both of the knuckles are hard to turn by hand, in that 30lb range or more, that will definitely give you some grief.
Can be a ball-joint and/or the front axleshaft steering u-joints binding up.
Did you replace those, or were they new when you got the 44?
For the box, when you installed it did you center the box perfectly and then match the rest of the linkage up to that, or did you match the box to the linkage?
Can make a big difference.
What year did the front axle come from? What C-bushings did you install? Trying to get a handle on what kind of caster numbers you're running with. You didn't happen to get an alignment readout after the swap yet, did you?
Good luck.
Paul
Couple of things come to mind. New box not centered, or something binding like a bad ball-joint or something.
You can test the latter easily, by removing the tie-rod ends from the knuckles and turn them yourself by hand. If they're smooth and easy (takes about 10 to 30 pounds of force) you're good. If either or both of the knuckles are hard to turn by hand, in that 30lb range or more, that will definitely give you some grief.
Can be a ball-joint and/or the front axleshaft steering u-joints binding up.
Did you replace those, or were they new when you got the 44?
For the box, when you installed it did you center the box perfectly and then match the rest of the linkage up to that, or did you match the box to the linkage?
Can make a big difference.
What year did the front axle come from? What C-bushings did you install? Trying to get a handle on what kind of caster numbers you're running with. You didn't happen to get an alignment readout after the swap yet, did you?
Good luck.
Paul
I did center the box then adjusted the drag link to it. The C bushings are 7 degree, the same ones that were on the Dana 30. The ball joints and axle u-joints are good. I think I might look for a set of knuckles and change it back to the stock set up. I think the tie rod on top of the knuckles might be the problem. I have not checked the alignment yet.
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Can you post up a pic from straight ahead showing the linkage?
I don't think that just having the tie-rod over is, in itself, enough to cause the issue. Lots of us using that without steering gremlins.
Did you change anything with the tires and wheels at the same time you put the new box on?
How old is the linkage?
Your tie-rod being longer than the trackbar is certainly not optimized, but here again, a lot of people run it without too much drama.
So post up some pics if you get the chance.
Thanks
paul
I don't think that just having the tie-rod over is, in itself, enough to cause the issue. Lots of us using that without steering gremlins.
Did you change anything with the tires and wheels at the same time you put the new box on?
How old is the linkage?
Your tie-rod being longer than the trackbar is certainly not optimized, but here again, a lot of people run it without too much drama.
So post up some pics if you get the chance.
Thanks
paul
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Its not the knuckles, I believe its the yokes on the axle. I believe there was some bad machining when the yokes were manufactured, causing these problems. It wont matter what mods you make it will not drive the way it should. I have rotated the yokes to get more caster, set the toe, adjusted camber and everything else that should take care of these issues but still the results are not what it should be. However, I have rotated the yokes on a few that corrected the issue. I have had a couple of front axles that no matter what I did the Bronco would never drive the way it should. It would drive straight but at the same time you just couldn't relax, it never would return to center all the way leaving about a 1/8 to 1/4 of wheel in each direction from center. I could turn the wheel about a 1/8 to 1/4 and it would continue to go in that direction, unless I would correct it, also when going into a turn about 1/4 to half way through I would have to make corrections. I have talked to others that have the same issues, it seems all the ones that have these symptoms are the Dana 44's, not for sure, just from the info I have gathered, I havn't heard of any of the D30's with this problem. I am currently working on a 44 that was on my 76 that had this issue. I am installing a set of yokes from a 75 Blazer, just soon as I get it completed I will post the results.
On the other hand my 74 drives like a dream, and its set up the same as my 76. I think I could install a set of bi-plys on the front and radials on the back and it would still drive great, no I wouldn't try it, but all BS aside it really drives good.
I had another 76 that was the best driving Bronco I have ever had, I knew soon as I got behind the wheel for a test drive that it was good. I have kicked myself ever since I sold that Rig, I have hauled cars on a tandem trailer and loaded the same trailer down with wood and that Bronco never did anything weird, no matter how much tongue wait I had on it.
So what I am gettn at is if the D30 drove good and you are going to drive it on the street a lot I would stick with it. You can build up the shafts themselves and prob never have any problems.
Steering geometry/handling is a complex thing, if it drives good it will always drive good if not its a SOB to get it where it should be.
I know this didn't really answer your Q directly, and others on here may have some tips for you to try, but I am just trying to save you some headache, time, and $.
One thing I did forget to mention is do you know if the D44 axle housing has been abused/in an accident, have you had it check for straightness?
On the other hand my 74 drives like a dream, and its set up the same as my 76. I think I could install a set of bi-plys on the front and radials on the back and it would still drive great, no I wouldn't try it, but all BS aside it really drives good.
I had another 76 that was the best driving Bronco I have ever had, I knew soon as I got behind the wheel for a test drive that it was good. I have kicked myself ever since I sold that Rig, I have hauled cars on a tandem trailer and loaded the same trailer down with wood and that Bronco never did anything weird, no matter how much tongue wait I had on it.
So what I am gettn at is if the D30 drove good and you are going to drive it on the street a lot I would stick with it. You can build up the shafts themselves and prob never have any problems.
Steering geometry/handling is a complex thing, if it drives good it will always drive good if not its a SOB to get it where it should be.
I know this didn't really answer your Q directly, and others on here may have some tips for you to try, but I am just trying to save you some headache, time, and $.
One thing I did forget to mention is do you know if the D44 axle housing has been abused/in an accident, have you had it check for straightness?
Well took the Bronco to a alignment shop and found out that it has 0 caster. I know it should have between +4-+9. The biggest problem is the steering wheel won't return to center. If I go with longer arms how much will that gain me. Hate to spend a bunch of money to still have this problem. Did they weld the wedges at different angles for year to year. Should I look for a different 44 housing? Thanks
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The biggest issue was inconsistency, rather than just welding them different for different years.
That said though, starting in about '75/'76 they were more consistently higher caster settings than in earlier years.
However, your 0*° is definitely less than "normal" as I've got your setup on my '71 and have just under 2° on one side and just over on the other.
Two things.
Did you verify that the C-bushings are in correctly on all four corners? Even pros make the occasional installation error with these pesky things.
And what degree C-bushings are being used?
Paul
That said though, starting in about '75/'76 they were more consistently higher caster settings than in earlier years.
However, your 0*° is definitely less than "normal" as I've got your setup on my '71 and have just under 2° on one side and just over on the other.
Two things.
Did you verify that the C-bushings are in correctly on all four corners? Even pros make the occasional installation error with these pesky things.
And what degree C-bushings are being used?
Paul
bronconut73
Bronco Guru
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In a post above he says his C-bushings are 7°.
The original ones from the 3.5" kit.
The original ones from the 3.5" kit.
Pulled the Dana 44 out tonight. The bushings are 7 degree and they were installed right. So I think I have one of those odd ball axles that were not put together right from the factory. I think at this point I will try to turn the c's. To get +5 degrees of caster the radius arms need to be about 1 degree of angle. Which I don't know if any radius arms will get it there.
Y not put drop radius arm brackets on it. That should net you some castor
DuctTape
Bronco Guru
Fixes cheapest/easiest first:
1) radius arm drop brackets (may have pinion angle issues that may or may not be solvable by monkeying with c-bushings) - $100-$200 in parts and maybe 4-6 hours of work. Needs welding.
2) rotate the yokes - no parts cost but probably a good bit of labor and tools required. Needs cutting, grinding, welding and someone that is careful.
3) long arms - probably 1k in parts, cutting, welding, maybe a day or day and a half of work?
Some people have had success with eccentric ball joints but given you need at least four degrees and they will give you 1.5 degree max those probably won't do it for you.
I was in a very very similar situation as you. I went drop brackets but I wish I would have rotated yokes. I've got around 5 degree caster now and it is night and day from before but still not where I want it. I need to go get specs checked and might do the eccentrics for fine tuning.
When you get alignment done have thrust angle checked. I discovered that my front and rear axles were not parallel. Can't fix that with yoke turning but you can fix that if you go arm drop or long arms.
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And to make it more complicated than necessary...
If you end up turning the steering yokes, I would go back to 2° C-bushings to keep a nice clean pinion angle, then get all of your caster from rotating the yokes.
You don't "need" to, but in my book, if you're going to go to that extra trouble, might as well optimize everything while you're at it.
Paul
If you end up turning the steering yokes, I would go back to 2° C-bushings to keep a nice clean pinion angle, then get all of your caster from rotating the yokes.
You don't "need" to, but in my book, if you're going to go to that extra trouble, might as well optimize everything while you're at it.
Paul
Update on steering
Will I cut and turned the C's. I got around +6 degrees of caster now and it drives good. The steering still seems tight. West Texas Offroad rebuilt the factory box and changed it to a 4 turn. I'm running the factory power steering pump. Could that be where the problem is. Should the factory pump work with the 4 turn box. Is there a better pump to put in? Thanks
Will I cut and turned the C's. I got around +6 degrees of caster now and it drives good. The steering still seems tight. West Texas Offroad rebuilt the factory box and changed it to a 4 turn. I'm running the factory power steering pump. Could that be where the problem is. Should the factory pump work with the 4 turn box. Is there a better pump to put in? Thanks
Last edited:
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Glad you got that part dialed in so quickly. Did you do it yourself, or take it to a shop?
No guarantees on the easier steering of course, but I would think that changing out to a more powerful pump would definitely help.
We sell the uprated Delphi pumps that are the old "canned ham" pumps found on a lot of vehicles in the seventies and eighties, except for our Broncos!
There are even more powerful pumps based on the same design, but tweaked to specifically put out more PSI and volume.
Here are some of the parts we offer: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/s?keyword=power+steering+pump
Others probably have variations, or different parts, but any should be better than the old original EB style with the small filler neck and dipstsick.
Either should help with the quicker box, and the old Ford pumps were not necessarily known for their stellar performance. But your results will all depend on if the weaker pump is the actual problem or not.
Naturally...;D
Paul
No guarantees on the easier steering of course, but I would think that changing out to a more powerful pump would definitely help.
We sell the uprated Delphi pumps that are the old "canned ham" pumps found on a lot of vehicles in the seventies and eighties, except for our Broncos!
There are even more powerful pumps based on the same design, but tweaked to specifically put out more PSI and volume.
Here are some of the parts we offer: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/s?keyword=power+steering+pump
Others probably have variations, or different parts, but any should be better than the old original EB style with the small filler neck and dipstsick.
Either should help with the quicker box, and the old Ford pumps were not necessarily known for their stellar performance. But your results will all depend on if the weaker pump is the actual problem or not.
Naturally...;D
Paul
