Typical wandering problem

[kevinv]

Hello,

I have the typical wandering problem that many have posted about. I think I have a 4.5 lift. I measured from the bottom of the frame rail to the top of the axle and it measures 11.25 inches. From a B.C. Broncos web page, 11.5 would mean a 4.5 inch lift. I assume the .25 difference may be a bit of settling.

I saw some pictures of what a C-bushing with the caster adjustment should look like when installed. It's hard to tell but it looks like the bushings I have don't have any adjustment to them. Plus it looks like they may not have been installed properly, they appear to be pinched or otherwise weren't fitted right. Links to pictures below.

I know I need to have an alignment shop give me the current specs on it. I have had a general auto mechanic shop look at it and they say everything mechanically as it sits is fine with it.

Any observations from the pics would be appreciated.

Thanks for the help,
Kevin

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2458.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2459.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2460.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2461.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2462.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2463.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2464.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2465.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2466.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinverble/pwpimages/IMG_2467.JPG

 

[DirtDonk]

Good pics there kevinv.
Right off the bat I would say that they're Duff bushings (based on the color alone) and a bit of squeezing out is perfectly normal and common.
It's not necessarily "right" as we should be able to make bushings that fit perfectly without squeezing, but they're supposed to be super tight in there, and sometimes there's even a buildup of rust scale on the pads that would cause even tighter conditions.

I only looked at the first pic, so now I'll go back and see if I can find any image that makes it look as if they're installed backwards or if I see anything else out of place.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oops, I should have mentioned right off about the misalignment of the trackbar and draglink.
The two bars should be as parallel as possible since they're still the stock lengths.

You have an obvious dropped trackbar bracket but no dropped pitman arm. That's a no-no usually, except for some instances, but yours is not off that much either.
Are there other holes in the drop bracket you can utilize that would lift the trackbar up slightly?

I'll keep looking.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Ok, some more observations.
Yes, those bushings do have some strange squeezing going on. It's common for the "ears" or flanges to spread out like that, but that extra bit of "bubble" sticking out from under the cap is very strange indeed. Never seen that before.
Not sure what's going on, but that's just plain weird.

Just an FYI, all polyurethane C-bushings that I'm aware of have some kind of offset. Whether 2° or up to 7°, there is some present. It's for caster correction.
You also have the rear radius arm mount drop brackets for caster correction. The ones like we sell at Wild Horses are 4 degree correction, but those are Duff's so we'll have to go over to their site to see what the spec is and in what position.
Maybe 01Dudley or Suzy will chime in here with that info.

You can put C-bushings in backwards, which would be bad, but with the drop brackets there's no way to tell exactly how much caster you have either way, plus what yours might have come with from the factory.
Best thing is to go put it on an alignment rack and get a paper printout. Some places will do it for free, since you're not having any aligning done, just checking. But even a 40 dollar charge is worth knowing what your readings are as a starting point.

From there you can see if you need to add more bushing offset, or adjust the drop brackets more, or what.
Not sure if Duff's put any markings on the side of the bushings, but most are marked inside as to what offset they have/had. Unfortunately, as tight as yours look, they may very well have been wiped clean inside. In that case, the only way to tell is with experience on knowing how much offset bushings look to be.

Another excellent and absolutely recommended thing for any Bronco owner to do occasionally, and especially when having some wandering issues, is to have a helper saw the steering wheel back and forth a half turn each way while you're under there looking and touching every bit of the suspension, steering and frame mounts.
If anything is loose, this test will usually showcase it clearly.

A loose trackbar bolt or mount can cause wandering all on it's own, even with everything else perfect. And if your drop bracket is only bolted on, instead of welded, then it flexes enough to cause wandering as well.

Good luck. Let us know what you find.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, weld the bracket and add a dropped pitman arm and that should help.

Nice Bronco. What year?
Looks like at least the passenger floor and front wheel well housing have been replaced.
Dual shocks are nice, but will very often lead to a stiffer than desired ride. You can experiment with taking one off of every corner (if dual) and see how it feels and if it still handles to your satisfaction. The just put them back on when you need them.

Looks in better shape than most. Is it fairly new to you? Or have you had it awhile?

Paul

 

[Jdgephar]

Is that front shock mount welded onto the c-clamp? Looks like it was welded in and melted the c-bushing.

 

[kevinv]

Thanks dirtdonk and jdgephar.

I'll try to cover everything here.

I'll have to look closer at the track bar bracket. I don't know if there are any additional holes. I can do the drop pitman arm easy enough. That negates having to do anything with the track bar other than the welding from what I gather.

I'll do the steering saw test. I figure the mechanic I took it do did that to be able tell me things were alright in the front end, but I should see for myself.

I think the front shock mounts are welded on the C clamp. It looks like the dual shock mount kit from Duffs calls for that. Are you saying the welding might have melted the bushing? I can't say if the welding was done before or after they were installed.

I didn't put the lift kit on. The truck came to me that way. It's a 75 (I thought I had a signature line that had that info but apparently not.) I've had it about a year and a half and have been working on it more than driving it. I've gone through the interior and engine compartment and spruced them up. Now that I can drive it a bit more, I'm looking closer at this wandering problem. It needed the front floor pans replaced. I had that done at a local shop. It looked good rust wise everywhere else. I may try removing one of the shocks. It does ride a bit rough.

In looking at the Duff kits, they have 3.5 and 5.5 inch kits. Since my height measurements came out 11.25, what do I have? The B.C Broncos site said to subtract 7 from the measurement between the lower frame rail and the the top of the axle shaft and that gives you the lift. I would expect either 10.5 or 12.5 since Duff doesn't have a 4.5 lift, not 11.25.

Thanks for the help. So I'll get the alignment specs, look at welding the track bar bracket and getting a drop pitman arm. And do the saw test. I'll check back when I see how all that works out.

 

[DirtDonk]

I'll do the steering saw test. I figure the mechanic I took it do did that to be able tell me things were alright in the front end, but I should see for myself.

Definitely. I doubt the mechanic did that. I've never personally known a mechanic to do that. Seen them do it with the tires off the ground, up on an alignment rack, and on a jack, but it doesn't work unless the full weight of the vehicle is on the tires and working against the steering system.
Most will just grab a component, or jam a prybar in there to add leverage, but have probably never thought about working the wheel like this.
If yours did, then more credit to him.

I may try removing one of the shocks. It does ride a bit rough.

Obviously, it'll never ride like a modern passenger car, but dual shocks can be a boon or bane. Great for cornering, or for handling certain types of off-roading, but not always the best.
And it depends on the valving of each shock, the stiffness of the springs and tires, and the personal preferences of the individual owners.
Best to experiment then, until you find your happy place.

In looking at the Duff kits, they have 3.5 and 5.5 inch kits. Since my height measurements came out 11.25, what do I have? The B.C Broncos site said to subtract 7 from the measurement between the lower frame rail and the the top of the axle shaft and that gives you the lift. I would expect either 10.5 or 12.5 since Duff doesn't have a 4.5 lift, not 11.25.

Couple of things come to mind. One, a 5.5" kit might have settled some since it was installed. Or maybe they offered a 4.5" at one time. OR, as we find out nearly every day... EBID (Every Bronco Is Different)!!!

Try measuring the rear too, just to see how they compare. I can't remember what the "stock" measurement would have been, but someone will probably chime in with that info soon enough.

Good luck. Can't wait to hear back when you've gone through round-1.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

While you're doing "the test" and are watching all the front linkages and even the frame behind the steering box, use your hands to feel for any movement that you might find hard to see.
Things like loose wheel bearings or a flexy wheel will show up when you put your fingers at the interface between the drum and backing plate, and the wheel edge and drum respectively.
And sometimes the lower trackbar bolt loses it's weld and can still wobble a tiny bit even when the nut is turned down tight.
You can see where to look in your image #5, just under the round blue bushing there is an opening in the lower part of the welded-on bracket. If you feel movement with your fingers, take a peek up under the bracket and look to see if the little tack-weld on the bolt head is cracked and allowing some flex.

It's not that often that the frame cracks behind the steering box, but it's often enough to mention. With larger tires and offset wheels like you have, putting extra stresses on things, cracks happen over time.

Another oft overlooked thing is the adjusting sleeve clamps on the tie-rods. They can't be left loose or the clamp will allow the two halves of the tie-rod to "flex" inside on their threads.
Won't automatically cause the wandering, but it can make the steering corrections more vague. Making it feel like it's wandering more than it should.
Again, it's not much. But it's enough to have an effect. Add two or three of these items together, and you can have a really loose steering feel.

That's about it. Just make sure you look from top to bottom and side to side, and touch everything, when your helper is working the wheels. Amazing the little movements that you can see that you won't otherwise be able to.

Paul