EFI In-Tank Fuel System

EricLar80 · Jan 10, 2016

I recently bought the BC Broncos 23 gallon tank that allows for an in-tank pump, so I figure this is a good time to start a thread. I currently have a 23 gallon tank with two external fuel pumps and an accumulator. I really want to simplify my fuel system (no 2nd pump, no accumulator, fewer fittings). My external pump is also singing pretty loudly these days, so I am sure it is on it's way out anyway.

Which in-line filter are people using with their in-tank systems? I prefer OEM style parts over aftermarket and have been looking at Fram G3727, or equiv, but it has 16mm x 1.5 threads that require the o-ring. That filter was used on pretty much every chevy truck for like 20 years, but maybe there is a better option. The ford ones have the duckbill fitting which I think requires nylon and I am planning to use poly-armour line...

I am still deciding on the fuel pump, but I am looking at the bosch 040 pump. Other than reliability, my main concern is how loud the pump is; i.e. - I don't want to hear it. The 040 doesn't require a sock (it has an integrated screen), and it is relatively quiet. Here is an interesting article if anyone is looking for a fuel pump comparison:
https://www.radiumauto.com/Blog/Post/Radium-s-Ultimate-Fuel-Pump-Test-100

Eric

sykanr0ng · Jan 10, 2016

The poly-armour link is broken

Try this one:

http://agscompany.com/product-category/brake-fuel-transmission-lines/poly-armour/

The biggest complaint I've seen for poly-armour so far is that it is green

EricLar80 · Jan 10, 2016

sykanr0ng said:
The poly-armour link is broken

Try this one:

http://agscompany.com/product-category/brake-fuel-transmission-lines/poly-armour/

The biggest complaint I've seen for poly-armour so far is that it is green

Link fixed. Thanks!

I actually like the color of the line. It isn't a bright green and looks factory.

EricLar80 · Jan 10, 2016

Here is a good representation of the color:

SSDDBRONCO · Jan 11, 2016

I have the Aeromotive Phantom 340. Pump runs great and the only time you hear the pump is for 5 seconds when you turn to key for it can prime. It's a little pricey but well worth the investment so far and hope it stays that way(knocking on wood lol)

sykanr0ng · Jan 11, 2016

SSDDBRONCO said:
I have the Aeromotive Phantom 340. Pump runs great and the only time you hear the pump is for 5 seconds when you turn to key for it can prime. It's a little pricey but well worth the investment so far and hope it stays that way(knocking on wood lol)

I like hearing the fuel pump when I turn the key.

Don't want to listen to it all the time but hearing it working first thing is good.

EricLar80 · Jan 27, 2016

I am continuing down the road of building my fuel system. All-in-all, what I am putting together is a similar setup to what BC Broncos sells, except that I am using Teflon hose rather than the rubber push-lock hose they use. Teflon is impervious to any and all gasoline additives/formulations these days and will last a lifetime.

The BC Broncos EFI fuel tank uses 6AN connections, and I am going to move completely to steel AN fittings for the rest of the system, just because it is easier that way. I am not a fan of bling, so I am going with plain steel over the anodized aluminum for the fittings. Here is the proposed layout:

Supply Line:
Internal Fuel pump -> Teflon hose assembly -> fuel filter assembly -> polyarmour tube assembly -> Teflon hose assembly -> fuel rail

Return Line:
Fuel rail -> Teflon hose assembly -> polyarmour tube assembly -> Teflon hose assembly -> fuel tank

I bought all of my fittings from technafit, and the teflon hose from racetronix. Technafit has good pricing on their steel fittings. Racetronix has a good price on conductive Teflon hose that is also covered with a black plastic cover. The conductive hose is supposedly a good idea when using Teflon, and the coating will keep the hose can be cleaned unlike exposed steel braid.

I am going to flare the tube with an AN flaring setup as well, so the tube will connect directly to the AN fittings. This will minimize the number of potential leak points because I am not converting from inverted flare to AN with an adapter fitting. I wanted to have a length of solid tube down the frame rail, rather than Teflon hose because it will have a cleaner install.

Eric

------------------------------

For those looking to duplicate what I am doing, here is a more comprehensive list of my parts, in the order they are used in the system, color matched to the assemblies above:

Supply Line:
Description, MFG, P/N, Site
AN 90 deg, technafit, 1091-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1091-06S
teflon hose, racetronix, TFT1170-06B, http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=TFT1170-06B&eq=&Tp=
AN straight, technafit, 1001-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1001-06S
--
filter straight adapter, technafit, 185005, http://www.technafitstore.com/185005-p/185005.htm
Filter, ACDelco , 25171792, http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-GF652-Professional-Fuel-Filter/dp/B000C9SR90
filter straight adapter, technafit, 185005, http://www.technafitstore.com/185005-p/185005.htm
--
AN Flare nut, technafit, 781806, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=781806
AN Flare sleeve, technafit, 781906, http://www.technafitstore.com/781906-p/781906.htm
Steel tube, poly-armour, PAC-625, http://www.autozone.com/1/products/80384-brake-line-pac-625-ags-poly-armour-pac-625.html
AN Flare nut & sleeve, technafit, see above,
bulkhead fitting, technafit, 783206, http://www.technafitstore.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=783206
bulkhead nut, technafit, 792406, http://www.technafitstore.com/792406-p/792406.htm
--
AN 90 deg, technafit, 1091-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1091-06S
teflon hose, racetronix, TFT1170-06B, http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=TFT1170-06B&eq=&Tp=
AN straight, technafit, 1001-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1001-06S
45 deg, technafit, 1046-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/1046-06S-p/1046-06s.htm
--
fuel rail adapter, fragola, 491985-BL, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040BCLYS

(EFI Fuel Rail)

Return Line:
Description, MFG, P/N, Site
fuel rail adapter, fragola, 491986BL, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VBAILK
--
AN straight, technafit, 1001-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1001-06S
teflon hose, racetronix, TFT1170-06B, http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=TFT1170-06B&eq=&Tp=
AN 90 deg, technafit, 1091-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1091-06S
--
bulkhead fitting/nut, technafit, see above
AN Flare nut & sleeve, technafit, see above,
Steel tube, poly-armour, PAC-625, http://www.autozone.com/1/products/80384-brake-line-pac-625-ags-poly-armour-pac-625.html
AN Flare nut & sleeve, technafit, see above,
bulkhead fitting/nut, technafit, see above
--
AN straight, technafit, 1001-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1001-06S
teflon hose, racetronix, TFT1170-06B, http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=TFT1170-06B&eq=&Tp=
AN 90 deg, technafit, 1091-06S, http://www.technafitstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1091-06S

ntsqd · Feb 16, 2016

Followed your link to here from the other thread.

You've probably already done it, but here is my reasoning behind NOT using steel in any of the fuel plumbing if there was an alternative. In my experience working on the APT's dyno and on their Hot Gas Turbo Test stand we used almost exclusively steel fittings. I saw more than just a few loose their plating over a rather short period of time (2-5 years) and start to rust. Some of these fittings were in coolant lines (D-I H2O), some were in the fuel systems (both gasoline & diesel) lines. The only system completely free of rusting fittings was the oil system for the turbo bearings.

I used the different colored ano to color code the supply (black) and the return (blue/red) lines on the Bronc-up.

I am using the Wix equivalent to that Fram filter (GM EFI applications from the late 80's into the 90's sometime). Haven't used anything Fram in over a decade, but that's a personal preference thing. Can barely make it out in this engine bay pic of the Valiant DD (disconnected fuel hose on rocker cover is attached to it at the other end):

EricLar80 · Feb 16, 2016

Thanks for the note, it is something I didn't consider; I was mostly worried about durability. I assume the insides of the steel fittings will not rust, just like the gas tank doesn't rust on the inside. Maybe I will coat them with something on the outside.

I already bought the fittings, so I going to run it like that and see how it goes. My power steering fittings that are steel look good after about 3 or 4 years now.

Eric

ntsqd · Feb 16, 2016

No, the corrosion was on the inside of the fittings. I suspect that the plating from our vendor was thin, but since I'm not going to set up to inspect that I went in a different direction. Here's hoping you have no issues.

EricLar80 · Feb 16, 2016

Weird. There are a lot of unprotected steel components in a fuel system, including the tank, fuel line, fuel rail and internal parts to the pump. Corrosion shouldn't really be an issue. But I am not sure what interactions low quality plating or ethanol-blended fuel would bring.

I have read that aluminum tube is not supposed to be used for high pressure, so I went all steel. Fingers crossed...

Eric

ntsqd · Feb 16, 2016

I mentioned it mostly to raise awareness in the event that something does show up later. I thought it odd and was disappointed in the fittings that displayed this. I expected it where we had to pierce the plating to modify a fitting, but to see it in unmodified fittings of a supposedly reputable brand name was a let-down.

Corrosion is also why I went with nylon tube and nickel plated Push-to-Connect tube fittings with Viton sealing o-rings. I may yet regret going with the brass bulkhead fittings. Fortunately it is easy enough to swap out those for AN X NPT bulkhead fittings. Pic showing the front tube bulkhead/tab and a lot of tidying yet to be done:

EricLar80 · Feb 16, 2016

I kicked the nylon idea around a lot and even spent the time to lay out what components I would need for that system. It was a lot cheaper and easier to go that route... so of course I didn't do that. %)

I don't think brass fittings will be an issue. Looks good to me!

Eric

ntsqd · Feb 16, 2016

LOL!

The brass may be an issue if/when I go diesel. Doubt gas or gasohol will be much of a problem.

englewoodcowboy · Feb 17, 2016

Look in my build last 2 pages and you can see I did mine in aluminum. Now I bought a tool for flaring along with 37* dies for flaring AN but you can use compression fittings as well. The aluminum is rated well above system pressure, won't corrode and was super easy to bend if you are looking for a non ferrous solution. My goal was to get away from steel tubing as one day I know I will get caught out where they have salted the road and I want all the protection I can get. I even ran my brake lines in the copper nickel line they have today. Mild copper color, very cool look I think and way easier to bend tight radiuses vs steel tubing.

ntsqd · Feb 17, 2016

Alcohol in the fuel will pull water out of the air and corrode the aluminum tubing if it is not anodized on the ID. Road salts etc. will do the same to the OD if not also ano'd. Add in aluminum's susceptibility to early fatigue failure from vibration (usually right at the base of the flare) and I relegate it's use to drag race cars only. That's my educated and experienced opinion anyway, others may think differently.

I've worked with the cupro-nickel brake system tubing on English sports racers and I've long wondered why for so long it has been difficult to get here in the States.

brianstrange · Feb 17, 2016

Use the poly armor lines, and have them end 6" short on either side of your filter. Autozone sells an inverted flare barb for 5/16 high pressure fuel lines, and run some rubber on each side to the stock Ford duckbills. Also, for anyone running the 5.0 Mustang fuel feed by the frame, you can buy 7MM high pressure line (VW) and it will make a better connection to the smaller barbs on those lines.

Side note. I have 10 year old PA lines here in New England, and they still look new. No hint of corrosion.

EricLar80 · Feb 17, 2016

Polyarmour is what I got for mine as well. Some don't like the greenish color they use for the coating, but it looks nice to me. The nicopp stuff isn't cheap...

I read that aluminum, although ok for that pressure when tested in a static system, is a bad choice for high pressure fuel lines. Especially when flared, for the reasons mentioned by ntsqd.

I also have the 37deg flare and plan to flare the Polyarmour. I primarily plan to do it so as to limit the number of fittings (leak points) - otherwise I would be converting back and forth from inverted flare to AN.

Eric

ntsqd · Feb 17, 2016

I did have some of the green stuff come off when I formed the Bronc-up's brake lines. Other than that, I'm a fan.

If you make the commitment to flare 37° it cuts out a whole bunch of adapter fittings for sure. Do all of the system possible with 37° flares. It's good for way more pressure than a fuel system will ever see and even works well in brakes.

I have a vendetta against worm drive hose clamps. Even the best of them ultimately destroy the hose. Seems like that always comes to a head in BFE.

The pic in my previous post shows how I make the transition from hard line (of any type) to flex line. I make a tab with bulkhead fittings in it. One side has the hard line brought to it, the other is where the flex connects. Makes a simple and clean anchor for the ends of both and avoids having a mass of fittings suspended and vibrating out in space (fatigue). I make a point with metal lines of having some sort of 'S' bend in it near each end so that things can move around a little without stressing the tubing or the coupling.

decipha · Feb 17, 2016

Eric im sure youve probably ordered a pump by now but if you hadnt id highly recommend the tre performance pumps, they are super quiet, work excellent, made in america, and are almost free!

heres a link to the pre tune info, scroll down to the fuel section and theres a link to tre's website, theres also a quick calc there to size your pump, ideally you dont want to oversize your pump any more than needed as that just heats up the fuel

http://info.efidynotuning.com/pre.htm

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