front end finally going together, need a couple opinions/measurements

methcat · Nov 1, 2009

hey guys, finally got a weekend to start throwing this back together and ran into a couple things that made me think a little (not posative i can do anything about them)

anyway, first, my upper ball joint inserts are going alot deeper than they did before i took it apart... some of you might remember the catastrophy i had getting my knuckles turned... i'm kind of wondering if my inner knuckles "opened up" due to they're being welded heavily on the inboard side.

(that is the botton of the insert you see in the last pic)

i was wondering if anyone had a 44 out they could measure the top knuckle flat to the bottom knuckle flat so i could compare and see if mine is bent. i measured one at 8 1/8" and one at 8 3/16". i'm thinking if they were both 8" they'd sit like they did before... again not sure what i can do about this other than take it back out, torch it and bend it back. maybe someone can chime in if they've put theirs together like i have it now.

second, i bought some of the molly shafts from tom's. i think they're probably the same as the cheap JBG ones. anyway, 3 of the shafts look pretty good, but one of the stubs has some pretty gnarly voids or inclusions on the ear. i'm gonna try to send them these pics on monday, but i wanted to get some opinions on how bad this looks...

thanks for reading guys and girls, man i hope i can get this done tommorrow (i think it'll be a good sick day);D

thanks again

cory

getfuzzy · Nov 1, 2009

just put my 44HP [78-79 big Bronco]back together today. I went out and try my best and mine look to be 81/4" Question did you tighen the bottem ball joimt first??

methcat · Nov 1, 2009

yeah, 90 ft-lbs. i double checked the bottom joint and the c-clip is in. so it's gotta be all the way in the outer knuckle. i'm sure i triple checked the top one when i installed, but it shouldn't matter. if the top wasn't all the way seated, it would actually make the adjuster seat higher... thanks for the measurement. i wonder if the bottom joint could've not went all the way up even with the 90 ftlbs torque...

order went 90 bottom, 40 to the sleeve, then 100 to the top nut.

methcat · Nov 2, 2009

well, scratch problem number 2. tom's called me back today and sent me a return mailer to replace the stub shaft. only problem is they want the bad part before they ship the new one... there goes two weeks.

as far as the first problem, i'm kinda going ahead for now... i guess i'd jsut be happy to hear a "oh yeah, i've put one together like that and it still survives" or "i'm pretty sure i'd never put that together like that..." , cause it just looks kinda funky to me.

thanks again

c

getfuzzy · Nov 2, 2009

Tring to help, can you post a pic from the front that shows the top and bottem ball joints. this is buging me. also what brand ball joints did you get?

getfuzzy · Nov 2, 2009

Just went out to my shop and looked at this again. Moog ball joints top large casle nut bottem flat looking locking nut.

methcat · Nov 2, 2009

thanks fuzz,

here are a few views... if the ear to ear dimension is right, the ball joint brand is the only thing i can think of. i got them from JBG. i'm pretty sure they sell moog stuff(double checked, they are spicer/oem). (they were the standard, not double price HD)... i did try measuring the diameters on the tapers, but not the stud hieght vz the old joints. i'll have to try that tomorrow.

thanks again,
c

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Must be just me, but that top ball joint sure looks like it's hanging down a long way. Even without any kind of grease fitting, the main body looks to be extending pretty far down. The only thing that would effect that though, would be the location of the clip groove. The clip itself looks to be seated all the way up, so that's not an issue. Bottom joint looks to be seated fully too.
Another thing I noticed is that the top joint's stud looks to be all the way up. Any farther and the cotter pin hole would be above the castle nut. At least that's how it looks from here.

Yep, just looked at mine and I barely have 1/8" below the ring groove. If that much. My boot won't come down far enough for me to see if there's any threaded sleeve showing though. The joint is high enough that pulling the boot down is not an option.

What's the "alignment" of your axle holes like? I know you've already got them installed, so it might be hard to tell. but can you see if the knuckle's hole is hanging lower than the axle tube's centerline?
Just a thought. Might be hard to measure even with the axleshafts out.

Paul

methcat · Nov 2, 2009

hey donk, as far as the top joint hanging low, don't they just have to be pressed in from the top unitl they don't go anymore? the sets i got from JBG didn't even come with clips for the top joint as when you put them in, the clip groove is partially covered by the casting. i'll try to get some more straight on shots of the top joint.

the stud is actually pretty low in the nut, just barely able to get the pin in (better pictures might help)

by alignment, do you mean the upper and lower knuckle holes? or are you askig if the tube is straight?

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Wondering if the axle tube is pointing straight through the center of the knuckle register/hole. Which, if not, would indicate that the knuckle is still hanging a bit low.

Then again, if the bottom joint is set properly, and it's just that the top joint is not fully seated in the knuckle, then the knuckle would still be "centered". Just the top joint would not be fully seated.

Now you've got me thinking. Been awhile since I installed any, so can't rememeber just how they seat, but one would think that the groove would need a clip that would seat on the knuckle casting. Wouldn't one?
The fact that the stud is riding low in the nut, makes me think we're on the right track though.

Paul

methcat · Nov 2, 2009

couple more...

it would actually be better if there was a shim or clip on the top of the outer knuckle where the upper joint went in so that it didn't seat down in as far... it's just strange that the adjuster wasn't like this when it came apart...

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Yes it would. Is that powder coating that I see? Could there be some around the edges of the hole that would keep the joint a bit lower?
The cotter pin actually looks pretty good to me.

Don't think the collar being that low is "right" but don't see an alternative just yet either.

Paul

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Ok, just went out and took some cursory measurements.
From the top of the yoke to the top of the stud is 1" (not a good point of reference though, as models may vary).
From the top of the knuckle to the bottom of the yoke (at approximately mid-joint) is 3/4" gap.
Bottom of joint to inside of knuckle is about 3/16 or so. The groove is seated farther up into the knuckle and I don't see a clip.

So, as someone here would likely have pointed out soon enough, maybe they didn't supply a clip for a reason. With the lower joint in there locating things, maybe a clip is un-needed.
Though I thought I remembered a very small, barely half-circle, clip, I sure don't see it.
Bottom line though, even though your balljoints look slightly different from mine, I still think mine is seated farther up inthe knuckle than yours is.

Hope that helps as a point of reference. Hopefully someone else has some measurements and more recent experiences with this.

Paul

getfuzzy · Nov 2, 2009

I'm drawing a blank. when I get home from work tomarrow I'll take a better look at mine. My top joint didn't have a grove for a c-clip at all.

methcat · Nov 2, 2009

well, i just went out and measured what i could. the old joints seem to have the samedimension from the seat to the top of the stud ( i really couldn't measure from the seat to the top or bottom of the taper) so i'm really not sure what to do...

nope, not powder. it's just "farm and implement" spray paint. actually pretty strong stuff.

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Here I go again. My name should be fuzzy tonight too!
The more I look at your latest pics, the more I think that your upper is seated the same amount as mine. It looks like yours just has more material below the ring groove, which is giving me a different reference point.

How far is the stud sticking out the top?

I will say though, confusion sure helps to get your post-count higher! Yikes.

Paul

methcat · Nov 2, 2009

hey paul, if you get another chance could you see what your total inner knuckle measures from flat to flat? (should be about 8 or so inches)

i'll go compare your other numbers... thanks guys

cory

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Does it feel good?
Run it!

Paul

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Sure thing. I like hanging with the spiders in the dark anyway.

You talkin' about the yoke? Or the knuckle? I'll try to get both, just in case.

Paul

DirtDonk · Nov 2, 2009

Outside-to-outside of the yoke is 8.25", just like getfuzzy's.
Outside-to-outside of the knuckle is about 7.875"

That 1/8 of an inch is not much, but...

Paul

front end finally going together, need a couple opinions/measurements

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