Liquid Sound Insulation Installation

aliensecretion · Feb 21, 2011

Finally got to get started on my sound insulation installation today and thought I'd start a thread on it since there always seems to be a lot of questions about the various options. This will give you one more!

So the plan was to strip off the paint on the floor pan, lay down POR15, then apply a couple layers of liquid sound insulation on the pan, sides and inside the doors. I choose eDead v3 for the sound insulation. http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_24&products_id=53 It's the same type of thing as LizardSkin but less than half the cost. Also plan to spray the inside of the top and just paint to match. When all that's done, i'll put the carpet back in.

So today, I started by yanking out the rear and passenger side carpet. The back end was actually in really good shape, just a few spots of surface rust, so I didn't end up striping the paint. I ended painting POR15 on all the seams and sanding around the surface rust and hitting those spots.

The passenger floor surface rust was worse but luckily not rusted through. If I had my own garage, I probably would try to replace some of it. But since I'm working out of the apartment parking garage, I decided to stick with the POR15. I laid down the first coat just on the spots where there was already rust. About a half hour later, I went back and put a coat over the whole section. It probably needs one more but that will have to happen tomorrow. I know the driver side is going to be worse and has at least two small spots that have rusted through. Not sure how I'm going to handle that... may leave it untreated until I can get it replaced.

So here's the before and after pics from today.

mp · Feb 22, 2011

How big are the rust through spots on the driver side? If small, you can fill with POR Putty--its like a thick seam sealer. I have used it on holes up to the size of a penny before I got a welder. Duct tape the under side, lay it in and let it set, grind off excess on both sides until smooth.

Also, POR15 does not adhere to paint, so I would not waste it on the whole section. Your pics show exactly how it is supposed to be applied.

Keep up the good work and keep the pics coming.

dbevans2249 · Feb 22, 2011

aliensecretion that looks like a good idea for inside the doors. Thanks for the link. I will be watching to see how it works for you. Post some pics when you do inside your doors if you can.

Heus33 · Feb 22, 2011

Subscribed! I'm doing the home made Lizard Skin in the spring (link to my build - lizard skin info is the last post on this page: http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172330&page=4)

Are you spraying yours or rolling it on? Would like to know what you're using to apply and any tips would be appreciated.

aliensecretion · Feb 22, 2011

MP, totally forgot about that putty! They also have that fiberglass cloth you can lay down and coat with the POR15. Have to see how bad the metal actually is.

When it comes to the sound insulation, I plan to roll the first layer or two to build up the mass then find a buddy to let me borrow his driveway to spray in the final layer for texture. (another problem with working in an apartment garage... can't plug stuff in anywhere!) Doors will be last and haven't decided exactly how to approach them yet.

Heus... just make sure you have a good mask to keep those microbubbles out of your lungs when you mix it up!

Heus33 · Feb 22, 2011

aliensecretion said:
MP, totally forgot about that putty! They also have that fiberglass cloth you can lay down and coat with the POR15. Have to see how bad the metal actually is.

When it comes to the sound insulation, I plan to roll the first layer or two to build up the mass then find a buddy to let me borrow his driveway to spray in the final layer for texture. (another problem with working in an apartment garage... can't plug stuff in anywhere!) Doors will be last and haven't decided exactly how to approach them yet.

Heus... just make sure you have a good mask to keep those microbubbles out of your lungs when you mix it up!

Roger that. ;D

What are you going to spray with? I've got a shutz gun but only a small 8 gallon compressor and Im worried that it won't be able to keep up. I know this stuff doesn't require a lot of pressure but I'm still not sold on that route yet. I'm leaning towards rolling mine on since I'll be covering it with dynamat and then carpet. Please share your experience - might push me towards one method over the other.

prosys1 · Feb 22, 2011

aliensecretion said:
MP, totally forgot about that putty! They also have that fiberglass cloth you can lay down and coat with the POR15. Have to see how bad the metal actually is.

When it comes to the sound insulation, I plan to roll the first layer or two to build up the mass then find a buddy to let me borrow his driveway to spray in the final layer for texture. (another problem with working in an apartment garage... can't plug stuff in anywhere!) Doors will be last and haven't decided exactly how to approach them yet.

Heus... just make sure you have a good mask to keep those microbubbles out of your lungs when you mix it up!

Once our weather gets a little warmer (and dryer) you can come up here to my shop and I'll help just for the learning experience. Plenty of space just outside the shop doors. Or we could move it inside if needed. I would have to clear a bigger area.
I have a Binks spray gun for auto paint. Not sure if that would help. Big 80gallon compressor. I'll provide the beer........

prosys1 · Feb 22, 2011

aliensecretion said:
So the plan was to strip off the paint on the floor pan, lay down POR15, then apply a couple layers of liquid sound insulation on the pan, sides and inside the doors.

Which of the POR-15 products did you select and why?
Summit has several.......

aliensecretion · Feb 22, 2011

I ordered the undercoating gun kit Lizardskin sells (via Summit). Looked for a cheaper one at Harbor Freight but they didn't know what i was talking about... WTH?

Heus, not sure how applying Dynamat over this would work, don't know if you get good adhesion. I know the eDead people say you can spray over the mats no problem.

prosys, Thanks for the offer! Have to see how it goes. The cool weather and rain doesn't look like it's going to end! Oh, I bought the POR-15 directly from them. I went with the small mixed pack here. The black will fade with UV exposure so i got 2 cans of silver in case I want to do anything external.

Heus33 · Feb 23, 2011

aliensecretion said:
I ordered the undercoating gun kit Lizardskin sells (via Summit). Looked for a cheaper one at Harbor Freight but they didn't know what i was talking about... WTH?

Heus, not sure how applying Dynamat over this would work, don't know if you get good adhesion. I know the eDead people say you can spray over the mats no problem.

prosys, Thanks for the offer! Have to see how it goes. The cool weather and rain doesn't look like it's going to end! Oh, I bought the POR-15 directly from them. I went with the small mixed pack here. The black will fade with UV exposure so i got 2 cans of silver in case I want to do anything external.

The gun is called a SHUTZ gun - they're about $20.

And the dynamat will stick to this stuff - plenty have done it without issue. Just something to consider if you want to add insulation down the road.

prosys1 · Feb 23, 2011

aliensecretion said:
prosys, Thanks for the offer! Have to see how it goes. The cool weather and rain doesn't look like it's going to end! Oh, I bought the POR-15 directly from them. I went with the small mixed pack here. The black will fade with UV exposure so i got 2 cans of silver in case I want to do anything external.

That six pack looks like the perfect set-up. The weather will get better.....

I'm originally from the San Jose area and I get a big laugh with the weather people down here and their "Storm Track" reporting while they put the camera in the gutter to film the water "rushing" by......LMAO.

I don't know what the temp and humidity levels need to be to spray insulation, but we could always bring the rig into the shop.....I've done it before using something like a box fan, but several lining the bottom of the roll up door.

aliensecretion · Feb 24, 2011

Shutz gun huh? Oh well, at least I have one even if I prob did overpay!

I got the first brush-on coat laid down tonight. Man is that stuff thick! I Used a sponge brush and maybe went a little to thin but figured that was better than too much. Got pics but I'm doing this on the phone so can't post them. I'll get 'em up tomorrow. Definitely will do at least one more brush coat then spray the last. Prosys, I'll pm you tomorrow about that. Maybe we can figure something out.

Heus33 · Feb 24, 2011

Do you think a small roller would work better than a foam brush?

prosys1 · Feb 24, 2011

aliensecretion said:
Shutz gun huh? Oh well, at least I have one even if I prob did overpay!

I got the first brush-on coat laid down tonight. Man is that stuff thick! I Used a sponge brush and maybe went a little to thin but figured that was better than too much. Got pics but I'm doing this on the phone so can't post them. I'll get 'em up tomorrow. Definitely will do at least one more brush coat then spray the last. Prosys, I'll pm you tomorrow about that. Maybe we can figure something out.

I'll PM you my shop and cell numbers, and my email as well.
I watch the little video for the eStuff. Sounds like you did it right, although I would have use one of those cheap brushes. We buy them by the box for brushing chips out of the machines. I hate the spongy things. Look forward to the pics.

prosys1 · Feb 24, 2011

Heus33 said:
Do you think a small roller would work better than a foam brush?

I like the roller idea too!

backpain · Feb 24, 2011

Heus33 said:
Subscribed! I'm doing the home made Lizard Skin in the spring (link to my build - lizard skin info is the last post on this page: http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172330&page=4)

Are you spraying yours or rolling it on? Would like to know what you're using to apply and any tips would be appreciated.

From someone who's done the real stuff, if you are doing the ceramic beads/glass balls I would not use latex paint as many are doing. Of course all depends on your application, but some really good 2k primer and the beads/balls/powder has got to be better than latex paint. If you're trying to get the effect of the Sound Control, that's another story. You need a really dense additive that has some of the sound deadening/absorption/energy conversion similar to the bitumen or butyl rubber based materials . . . or else you may as well use foam/rubber mat or other insulation for absorption or barrier qualities.

Just my opinion after lots of work, research and experience with the LS.

Heus33 · Feb 24, 2011

backpain said:
From someone who's done the real stuff, if you are doing the ceramic beads/glass balls I would not use latex paint as many are doing. Of course all depends on your application, but some really good 2k primer and the beads/balls/powder has got to be better than latex paint. If you're trying to get the effect of the Sound Control, that's another story. You need a really dense additive that has some of the sound deadening/absorption/energy conversion similar to the bitumen based materials, or else you may as well use foam or other insulation for absorption or barrier qualities.

Just my opinion after lots of work, research and experience with the LS.

Thanks - I remember reading your posts about the LS. In my research I found many that claimed that LS was simply latex paint and the glass micro bubbles. Are you saying that its not the same? I'm planning on using the latex paint/micro bubble mixture as layer one, followed by dynamat and finally carpet.

prosys1 · Feb 25, 2011

backpain said:
From someone who's done the real stuff, if you are doing the ceramic beads/glass balls I would not use latex paint as many are doing. Of course all depends on your application, but some really good 2k primer and the beads/balls/powder has got to be better than latex paint. If you're trying to get the effect of the Sound Control, that's another story. You need a really dense additive that has some of the sound deadening/absorption/energy conversion similar to the bitumen based materials, or else you may as well use foam or other insulation for absorption or barrier qualities.

Just my opinion after lots of work, research and experience with the LS.

I looked at the LS website and didn't see any specs as far as sound deadening abilities. I wonder which has the better properties. I did see that it is water resistant, which means it isn't water proof. Kinda worries me for the creek crossings. The website states that it is water clean-up, which adds to the possibility that it's latex based. But isn't latex OK after it's dried?
And the website says that LS is spray on only. Kinda limits your application choices.
Alien, have you talked to the eDesigns people? Did they maybe say their stuff is better?

prosys1 · Feb 25, 2011

backpain said:
If you're trying to get the effect of the Sound Control, that's another story. You need a really dense additive that has some of the sound deadening/absorption/energy conversion similar to the bitumen based materials, or else you may as well use foam or other insulation for absorption or barrier qualities.

I also saw on LS website that sound deadening and heat insulation are two different coatings....

backpain · Feb 25, 2011

Heus33 said:
Thanks - I remember reading your posts about the LS. In my research I found many that claimed that LS was simply latex paint and the glass micro bubbles. Are you saying that its not the same? I'm planning on using the latex paint/micro bubble mixture as layer one, followed by dynamat and finally carpet.

LS may well be VERY similar to latex pain as a carrier/base, but I am suggesting trying for something better. I ate my words in one of my last posts after I got it all done - it sure smells A LOT like latex paint. I'm suggesting however that using something more durable may be worth considering.

The LS SC is more dense and for sound control. The CI is the stuff people are making on their own with ceramic spheres and latex paint.

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