Went to reinstall the strange assembly Ford put on early 289s. I can't make any sense of it, but I think it's all there. Why use such a complicated series levers, cranks,and rods? On later V8s, Ford put one rod from the bell crank to the throttle lever on the carb. They must have had a reason to to go to the trouble and expense, but I can't see it. Does anyone have a diagram or photo of the early throttle linkage installed correctly? Since I have one I'd like to see if it improves anything.
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Stock '69 289 throttle linkage?
- Thread starter jckkys
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Jdgephar
Bronco Guru
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I can check for photos later, but I'm sure someone will beat me to it. I just had our shop at work lengthen one of the rods and I've been running one rod from the carb to the firewall pivot. Been working great all summer. I still have the coat hanger wire template I used to make sure it would work, lol. I can snap some photos of my linkage setup after work, and I get can get the dimensions for the rod that I made too.
70_Steve
Old Guy
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- Dec 13, 2002
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I believe the reason for the mechanical nightmare was to eliminate changes in throttle position due to the engine rocking on the motormounts. With the later linkages (one rod from bellcrank to carb) it can become difficult to control the throttle when attempting a technical maneuver, since the engine will tend to rotate to the passenger side under a load, and this will tend to open the throttle more than desired. Then let off the throttle, the engine will rock back into position, and now there's less throttle than desired.
This issue became especially bad on my 351 with the low gearing. And it didn't take much of an obstical to create that surging effect.
If you really want to improve something, replace the mechanical throttle linkage with a cable. The Lokar cable was the best thing I'd done in a long time.
The AFB I'm currently running on a torque oriented 351 is hard to finesse in tight maneuvers. The driver is bouncing around and so is the right foot. A snappy responsive engine is good. but anything can be over done. On my Holley I moved the throttle ball about 3/4" further away from the throttle shaft. This worked but I can't do the same on the AFB. I was hoping the complex '69 linkage could help. A cable linkage won't do much to steady my right foot.
After having my fan eat the shroud when the motor mount separated, I replaced them with the type that have a steel rod to keep the mount together. The engine movement is small compared to driver-foot movement. Even a hydraulic accelerator linkage wouldn't help that. Also I like to keep things as original as possible.
After having my fan eat the shroud when the motor mount separated, I replaced them with the type that have a steel rod to keep the mount together. The engine movement is small compared to driver-foot movement. Even a hydraulic accelerator linkage wouldn't help that. Also I like to keep things as original as possible.
70_Steve
Old Guy
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- Dec 13, 2002
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I can kinda see that you like keeping things original, 351 and all...
But sometimes function has to win out!My friend motoman, on a run when he was my passenger, finally suggested ( I suspect out of frustration!
) that I keep my right foot rested against the tranny tunnel. Then it's just a matter of rolling your foot, using the tranny tunnel as a steady-rest. That smoothed out my driving considerably. That and the throttle cable, and I'm damn near perfect!;DBesides, you keep running that AFB, and you'll be converting to EFI soon enough... Ask me how I know. And then ask me if I want to sell that POS AFB I've been kicking around on the garage floor for two years!!!
I do try to keep the Bronco looking like a Bronco but things that we all wanted Ford to do while the EBs were in production are fair game. So wheel well cut outs and much more torque from a 351 were what we did when no body could understand why Ford wouldn't.
I've owned four vehicles with EFI and it works OK. Tuning with a laptop is convenient but not as interesting or fun as a carb and distributor. I see little evidence that more than a small percentage of EB owners can set up a distributor with an optimum centrifugal and vacuum advance curve, or even tune a carb. This is part of owning a classic vehicle. Having read repeated assertions that AFBs are no good, I have yet to read any specific problems being articulated. If someone wrote that a variable venturi is a POS I would agree as would anyone who has worked on one. The AFB tho is most trouble free carb I've owned. So if there is a problem what is it?
I want to thank BronCowie for the photo. I'm not sure where the back end of the long rod on top is connected. Is it bolted to the fire wall? Is the throttle return spring in front of the carb?Thanks.
I've owned four vehicles with EFI and it works OK. Tuning with a laptop is convenient but not as interesting or fun as a carb and distributor. I see little evidence that more than a small percentage of EB owners can set up a distributor with an optimum centrifugal and vacuum advance curve, or even tune a carb. This is part of owning a classic vehicle. Having read repeated assertions that AFBs are no good, I have yet to read any specific problems being articulated. If someone wrote that a variable venturi is a POS I would agree as would anyone who has worked on one. The AFB tho is most trouble free carb I've owned. So if there is a problem what is it?
I want to thank BronCowie for the photo. I'm not sure where the back end of the long rod on top is connected. Is it bolted to the fire wall? Is the throttle return spring in front of the carb?Thanks.
Nope, he's working on a '69, and I have had the setup in the photos on a '69 as well. Not C4 equipped in '69, and mine still had the original 3-speed manual. It's a crazy throttle linkage contraption that Ford used for a few years.
Broncobowsher
Total hack
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- Jun 4, 2002
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- 35,047
I have never owned a working example of the linkage, but I know about it. As stated above it is to correct for body and engine movment. the difference between the bellcrank and the rod going to the firewall is translated into throttle opening.
In the pic above the rod does NOT go to a kickdown. It is simply how the photo turned out, that is the adjuster threads going past the piviot on the bellcrank that liiks like it is going down toward the transmission. A bit of an optical illusion.
I have done the simple non-equalized linkage. You can feel the body and engine shake and flex on rough gravel roads. It can be hard to keep a light foot and float a steady throttle as the gas pedal wants to go up and down on you. My fix was to give up and put a throttle cable in. That fixed all kinds of problems (and caused a few new ones since I didn't get the alignemnt right the first time and the cable started cutting the ferrel and then started wanting to stick into the cable sawed end. Had to get a new cable kit and properly align the cable.
In the pic above the rod does NOT go to a kickdown. It is simply how the photo turned out, that is the adjuster threads going past the piviot on the bellcrank that liiks like it is going down toward the transmission. A bit of an optical illusion.
I have done the simple non-equalized linkage. You can feel the body and engine shake and flex on rough gravel roads. It can be hard to keep a light foot and float a steady throttle as the gas pedal wants to go up and down on you. My fix was to give up and put a throttle cable in. That fixed all kinds of problems (and caused a few new ones since I didn't get the alignemnt right the first time and the cable started cutting the ferrel and then started wanting to stick into the cable sawed end. Had to get a new cable kit and properly align the cable.
My '73 bought new, had the single rod just like my '77. '73 was the first year for the C4. Just looking at it,it's obvious the kick down rod would have to go trough the middle of all those levers. A Lokar kick down cable might be needed to use the '69 linkage with a C4.
My AFB being overly responsive can be cured by bolting an extension on the throttle lever. I want more peddle movement to cause less throttle rotation, at least when the throttle starts to open. Near full open it's not a problem. Only need to be sure peddle to the metal opens it completely.
The idea of supporting the right foot on the tunnel is good and makes me wonder if a heel perch under the accelerator peddle could help control my bouncing lead foot.
What I'm building is a registered '69 that has or will have all the desirable features of a '77. If you saw it you would ID it as a '77. All the VIN#s including the confidential ones are '69. The windshield folds down and the door window frames are removable but there are doors over the fuel caps. It has PS,PDBs,and C4. It took two trucks to build one but I only need to worry about '69 emission requirements.
My AFB being overly responsive can be cured by bolting an extension on the throttle lever. I want more peddle movement to cause less throttle rotation, at least when the throttle starts to open. Near full open it's not a problem. Only need to be sure peddle to the metal opens it completely.
The idea of supporting the right foot on the tunnel is good and makes me wonder if a heel perch under the accelerator peddle could help control my bouncing lead foot.
What I'm building is a registered '69 that has or will have all the desirable features of a '77. If you saw it you would ID it as a '77. All the VIN#s including the confidential ones are '69. The windshield folds down and the door window frames are removable but there are doors over the fuel caps. It has PS,PDBs,and C4. It took two trucks to build one but I only need to worry about '69 emission requirements.
mkcj
Jr. Member
Not to jack the thread
But we are building a 69 with a C-4 so will I need to change my throttle linkage?
But we are building a 69 with a C-4 so will I need to change my throttle linkage?
http://www.dufftuff.com/Lokar_4_Barrel_Carb_Bracket_for_Carb_Cable_p/2340.htm
http://www.dufftuff.com/Lokar_Bronco_Throttle_Cable_Assembly_4_Barrel_Carb_p/2342.htm
http://www.dufftuff.com/Lokar_Ford_Transmission_Kickdowns_C4_C6_AOD_p/2380.htm
http://lokar.com/product-pgs/mounti...mages/springreturn-kit/srk4000-ghostedbkg.jpg
doesn't get any easier than that gentlemen.
http://www.dufftuff.com/Lokar_Bronco_Throttle_Cable_Assembly_4_Barrel_Carb_p/2342.htm
http://www.dufftuff.com/Lokar_Ford_Transmission_Kickdowns_C4_C6_AOD_p/2380.htm
http://lokar.com/product-pgs/mounti...mages/springreturn-kit/srk4000-ghostedbkg.jpg
doesn't get any easier than that gentlemen.
Made an all out effort get all the '69 linkage together. Mine is different than the photo provided by BronCowie. I have regular Ford snap on rod for a ball stud on the carb. I don't recall a 2100 that had a ball stud under the throttle shaft that was pushed to open the throttle. There is an arm on mine pointing up opposite the downward arm in the photo. This arm has a hole too small to take one of the rods so it must be for a return spring. Does anyone have or remember an Autolite 2100 that has a throttle lever that is pushed to open? The more I try to figure it out the stranger it gets.
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The rod back to the firewall clips to a little "L" bracket that's screwed to the firewall.
Don't have a pic on this computer, but it's a very simple affair.
I don't remember exactly, but seem to remember a small anchor bolted to the manifold in front of the linkage where the spring connected.
Seems like aftermarket manifolds had bosses to mount things to, but were never in just the same spot as the original.
Hard to figure the exact orientation because on some years there was also an "anti-dieseling" solenoid that set your idle when the engine was running.
Paul
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No. Lower was for pushing open with the rod, upper was for return with the spring.
Paul
The manuals I've seen show a push type throttle opening rod and a return spring from the hole I described to a bracket high on the 2100. The throttle lever on these carbs is different from other 2100s. This linkage doesn't translate to after market carbs well.
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Until you remove the doubler and use just the pull-lever from the main bellcrank, like in the pics.
If your aftermarket carb does not have a hole in the lower linkage arm (my Carter did, so was fine as-is), then simply remove the extra levers and rods and run the carb's upper "pull" lever from the EB's linkage like that.
Paul
As I was explaining before, the vertical arm,hanging down on the photo that pushes the throttle open has an opposite arm on my example that points up. This part of the pictured linkage appears to have been cut off. The hole in said upper arm is too small to take one of the rods. That's why I believe it is intended to take one end of the return spring. By enlarging that hole to accept a rod that has a snap on socket the works with the ball stud on most carbs,I could make it usable. This would have the added advantage of initiating throttle movement by pulling the arm on the carb at a right angle.This would help because the ball stud sits in front of the throttle shaft and the long rod from the later bell crank pulls down while pulling back. The geometry forces the throttle to rotate more when the accelerator is pressed very little. The driver has less control hurting fuel economy and risking broken parts.
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