5.0 EFI, Dakota Digital VSS issues

blazinchuck · Oct 19, 2012

hey guys, getting ready to install DD, like mentioned its 5.0 EFI. I use fords vss in the D20. DD kit comes with its own vss. do i use these together or one? any other issues i might be facing? anything i should do to the gauge before mounting it in the dash...like sealing the back or sides etc?

my main concern is the vss...since im using a nv3550, im sure i need the vss for idle control. gimme your thoughts guys, thanks

blazinchuck · Oct 19, 2012

i just talked with DD, the tech guys says i can use fords vss, IF my eec has a speed output signal coming from it. he said if i dont and try to tap their wires into the vss im using now it might conflict with DD's system. ford has a 2 wire vss, DD has a 3 wire vss...

so the question is...did RJM perhaps provide a speed output so folks could run digital speedo or even cruise control? seems a shame if he didnt...

blazinchuck · Oct 26, 2012

ive had the dakota digital installed for almost a week. im loving it.

but i really need some help here guys, i could not run the ford vss and the DD vss(too long and hit shift rail housing) so i ran the DDvss only. everything seems fine, but so far this week, ive had my bronco almost stall about 6 times. it seems to only happen when ive been driving about a mile at a constant speed...then pull up to light and push in clutch, then brake...it almost dies! its starting to get annoying. ford vss is 2 wire, DD is 3 wire. i think i need the a vss for the ford EEC...it just seemed happier

xcntrk · Oct 26, 2012

I'm following this thread as I too will encounter this problem sometime in the near future (same eventual setup; manual tranny, EFI, electronic speedo).

Sounds like this is the root of your problem:

Dave said:
The older Ford VSS is a variable reluctance sensor. (Magnet passing by a coil) It's a 2 wire analog signal that the PCM (A9L) processes. The newer stuff uses a digital pulse from the VSS source. A hall effect sensor generates a compatible signal. It is a powered device that has 3 wires (+12v - gnd - and vehicle speed signal). It's not compatible with the A9L. The variable reluctance sensor is not compatible with the electronic speedos etc...

From this thread (see post-8 and beyond):
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136145

"Dave" on here seems to have a solution although I don't know if it fits your application. See this tread below, posts 41 & 67:
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124065&page=3

Maybe drop him a line and see if he can provide any input to this thread?

blazinchuck · Oct 29, 2012

back to the top...i really wish dakota digital could make a vss that works with ford eecs...hell they can make it 16,000ppm...why not 8k???

i tapped into the ford vss and ran 2 wires to DD...it seems to read it, but not without starving the eec of some voltage.

i started getting a flash from the check engine light... continuous memory #29 and 33

DD says they will sell me a signal splitter for $85 and i checked with dave and called magsensors.com...they have just what i need, but its $125!!

xcntrk · Oct 29, 2012

blazinchuck said:
...i checked with dave and called magsensors.com...they have just what i need, but its $125!!

Can you provide more detail, what do they have?

bronc50 · Nov 1, 2012

I am still in the same boat looking to solve the VSS a9l vhx dilemma
I have also talked to Dakota digital and they tell me I need a sgi-5
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/prd126.htm

bronc50 · Nov 1, 2012

This is from the sgi-5 installation instructions

APPLICATION #5
Convert a 16000ppm signal from a Hall Effect VDO signal generator to 8000ppm, 4000ppm, or 2000ppm to run a cruise control or fuel injection computer.
The Hall Effect sensor will have three wires. The white wire is the signal. The signal wire will be tapped into so the SGI-5 can read it. The sensor signal wire will go to the SIG IN terminal. Connect the PWR terminal to a 12-volt accessory wire and connect the GND terminal to a good ground location. The output connections will depend on your particular application. Here are some typical examples:
OUT1, 8000ppm AC: OUT3, 4000ppm AC: OUT4, 4000ppm oc: OUT5, 2000ppm oc:
most aftermarket cruise controls
most TPI computers and some OEM cruise controls use this if OUT3 does not provide a good signal most TBI computers and some OEM cruise controls
Begin with the switches as follows and then determine how far off the calibration is.
1
2
3
4
ON
ON
OFF
OFF

blazinchuck · Nov 2, 2012

yep, thats the same thing they tried telling me i need to run. i believe i have a fix for this now.last week i tapped 2 wires into my ford vss at the firewall (to keep the wires short as possible) 2 went to eec and 2 went to DD. it worked, i re-calibrated the speedo...but the eec is not happy now. whats happening is since my vss is going to both items the total voltage output dropped. now there is a low voltage from the vss to the eec.

so heres the plan, get another ford vss from auto store($16) and piggy back them. there is enough room to run 2 ford vss(one for eec,one for DD). i know i can do this already since i drill my vss out a while back to accept the ford bronco speedo cable. i plan to do this later today after work...i will let yall know how it goes.

xcntrk · Nov 2, 2012

I don't think that SIG-5 unit will work. That seems to only be compatible with digital pulse signals, either amplifying or reducing. The root of the issue here is not the signal PPM but rather analog vs digital signal altogether...

blazinchuck · Nov 2, 2012

the main problem is DD gives us a vss and an adapter to use (which is fine for non efi needing vss) but if u have efi using a vss...all these items together are too long and will not fit in the space provided on the d20. all that is needed is another vss that is smaller for the DD...but im not paying $125 for a vss from magsensors. i called DD yesterday to confirm...their system does not care if its receiving a AC or DC signal, not hall effects or digital...it just needs a speed signal of some sort. the stock vss is fine...but it can not support both EEC and DD the voltage drop is too much. just get another ford vss and use it for the dd and be done...

xcntrk · Nov 2, 2012

^And you can install two ford VSS inline and clear the shift-rail caps?

blazinchuck · Nov 2, 2012

Gonna try right now

blazinchuck · Nov 2, 2012

OK!! Drum roll...

I had to trim as much as I could off the second vss...then pry, push, and cuss... but its in!!! Now I'll wire second vss for DD. here's a pic

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

blazinchuck · Nov 2, 2012

We have success!!! 1st vss for eec is happy...cleared the memory code for low voltage to vss.

Wired 2nd vss to Dakota Digital and re-calibrated the Speedo again. Its working great! We have a winner folks...and
It cost less than $10. $2 to get in pull yard and $5 for vss w/plug harness.

As for trimming vss, I took everything down to the wiring plug. About 3/4" removed. Hope this can help others with Dakota Digital and EFI w/vss. Thanks, Chuck
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

bronc50 · Nov 2, 2012

xcntrk said:
I don't think that SIG-5 unit will work. That seems to only be compatible with digital pulse signals, either amplifying or reducing. The root of the issue here is not the signal PPM but rather analog vs digital signal altogether...

The sgi5 will do ac and oc output. But unsure of if it will work earthier. Nice work on the piggy back ford sensors how did you join them

bronc50 · Nov 20, 2012

blazinchuck said:
OK!! Drum roll...

I had to trim as much as I could off the second vss...then pry, push, and cuss... but its in!!! Now I'll wire second vss for DD. here's a pic

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Liked your idea. So i modded the Dakota digital to piggy back the ford

blazinchuck · Nov 21, 2012

Good job on yours, I think the DD vss had a thread on collar?

bronc50 · Nov 21, 2012

Yes it did. could even get it to thread onto the for sensor.had to massage the hex off the dd sensor and it was good to go. Besides extending the inner shaft to turn the dd,but that was easy with a moddified shaft from another ford sensor. Tight as it is it turned out great and is a complete sealed assembly!

4x4man514 · Aug 17, 2014

So are those mustang vss? I'm going thru the same thing now with an auto meter speedo. The vss with it is way too long. I'm gonna have to do what you did I just need to make sure my speedo will work with strange vss

5.0 EFI, Dakota Digital VSS issues

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