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ZF-5 Behind a 400 M block swap - in an Early Bronco

landshark99

Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
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1,401
So I have been wanting to swap in a ZF-5 into my early bronco since I got it and have finally started down the path to to do so.

I have a ZF-5 from behind a 460 locally that I will be acquiring soon (was driven and shifted in the vehicle) and finally got my list together with most of the parts needed. I have decided to post up a thread on the swap since its not too common and this is something I have never tackled before.

Even through the zf-5 has the same bell housing pattern as a 400 block there are some differences in regards to the clutch engagement and throw out bearing that requires some attention. I will have to have a spacer machined that will allow for near full clutch engagement and to house the pilot bearing, but the rest of the swap is mostly off the shelf parts. I will try to re-use as many of the 400 bits as I can as frankly they have about 2000 miles on them since the build but I of course expect some surprises along the way ;)

I plan to reuse the external Hydraulic clutch assembly from the big block zf-5

Anyway heres the list so far compiled courtesy of Gary_Lewis over on the FTE forums

  • The 460 version of the ZF5
  • A pressure plate that works with your 351M or 400's flywheel (if you are starting with a 400 flywheel then you can go with the larger pressure plate and, therefore, the larger clutch disc.)
  • A clutch for a 460 (because the 460's clutches had the larger splines) that will fit under your pressure plate
  • The adapter to space the flywheel back
  • 7/16-20x1.375 place bolts to hold the adapter and flywheel to the crank. I got mine from Wilson Garner
  • A pilot bearing for a ZF's input shaft
  • Move the ring gear on the flywheel forward as far as it will go
  • Use a 351W auto trans starter as it has the longest throw
  • A throwout bearing that will work with the release arm. I used the Dodge unit show in the picture below (National Bearing #614114) About $60
  • Either headers to clear the ZF on the passenger's side or a groove ground in the ZF's meaty flange that will let you get an Allen wrench on the inside bolt on the passenger's side. And, if you use the exhaust manifolds you will need to remove the inside stud on the passenger's side exhaust manifold and replace it with an socket-headed cap screw
  • ZF to D20 kit ($379.99)
  • ZF Crossmember ($129.99 ) or fab one up..
 

Tedster100

Chairman of the Bored
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
1,762
Sounds like a serious project. Interested to see it come together. For the $379 for the ZF to D20 kit you could pick up a good NP205 & bolt right on. I thought all ZF's had a slave cyl to run the throw out bearing, are the big block models different?
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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Oct 13, 2011
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1,401
Sounds like a serious project. Interested to see it come together. For the $379 for the ZF to D20 kit you could pick up a good NP205 & bolt right on. I thought all ZF's had a slave cyl to run the throw out bearing, are the big block models different?

the big block zf-5's have an external slave

I considered the 205, but really enjoy the lower gearing of the dana20.. plus i have the hardened output shaft
 

pa69broncoguy

Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
566
heres my question, why not use the 460? from what ive heard the 351m is a boat anchor. I belive the 460 and 351w /400 are based from the same block so size shouldnt be a concern.
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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heres my question, why not use the 460? from what ive heard the 351m is a boat anchor. I belive the 460 and 351w /400 are based from the same block so size shouldnt be a concern.

The 400 is built, has less than 2000 miles on it and is actually a monster..

Ford 400 bored out to 406. Machine work done by Tim Meyer out of MN.
Keith Black pistons machined by Tim. (9:1 CR)
Aussie 302 heads built by Tim.
Comp cams 265DEH cam.
Custom single plane intake manifold machined for MPFI.
Holley Commander Mult-port Fuel Injection system.
Mallory ignition and dizzy.

I assume you meant the 351m not w ;)
 

bax

Contributor
Old Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
14,492
OK sounds like a good combo to me. Tim does a fine job on his 400's. With the aussi heads you will have a torque monster. Sounds very similar to my tim meyer build. I will caution you on the dana 20. Even with the better output shaft, it's just a matter of time. The 400 will consume it.
No the 400 is not the same block as the 460. A 400 is only 50 pounds heavier than the 351W it will fit much better than a 460. Practically a bolt in.

Press on and I want pictures when done.
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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Oct 13, 2011
Messages
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OK sounds like a good combo to me. Tim does a fine job on his 400's. With the aussi heads you will have a torque monster. Sounds very similar to my tim meyer build. I will caution you on the dana 20. Even with the better output shaft, it's just a matter of time. The 400 will consume it.
No the 400 is not the same block as the 460. A 400 is only 50 pounds heavier than the 351W it will fit much better than a 460. Practically a bolt in.

Press on and I want pictures when done.

The 400 is already in, running a NP435 behind it currently, this was Devins bronco ;)

If i grenade the D20... then I might go with something a little beefier - but for now I'm running it as its what i got!
 

bax

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Aug 22, 2005
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Oh very good. I hope you are having good luck with it. I miss Devin's input, I hope he is doing good. Now get out there and break something.
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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Oct 13, 2011
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Oh very good. I hope you are having good luck with it. I miss Devin's input, I hope he is doing good. Now get out there and break something.

Have it running like a rapped ape.. thing is a torque monster in the sand and a beast in granny gear - lots of fun ;)

I'm still doing some light tuning here and there but overall it really is running great.. getting almost 12mpg to boot.. had to add a couple of puller fans as it was getting pretty hot on the trail, but overall pretty happy with it so far... would like to get some video of it here soon.. everytime i go out iam driving and my passengers are hanging on :)
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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Oct 13, 2011
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1,401
Question for you early bronco 400 owners...

I'm speaking with a guy who has done a 400/zf swap and he mentioned having to do some clearances on the zf to allow the manifolds to bolt up. Do you know if I will have issues with the stock manifolds and the zf on an early Bronco?

I couldn't imagine aftermarket headers are common for a 400.. plus getting ones that would fit in an Early Bronco... plus the unwanted extra expense..

I probably should start snapping some pics..
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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Oct 13, 2011
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Dropped the schematics off at the machinist to make the spacer/bearing retainer I need in order to get better spline engagement..

These were kindly made by Gary Lewis who is active on Ford Truck Enthusiast, hes been super helpful with answering my questions over there as he has done this swap and has a very detailed thread here: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1156142-dads-zf5-swap.html

Spacer%20Complete1.jpg


Spacer1.jpg


Iam gone for a few weeks but will continue this when i get back :)
 

bax

Contributor
Old Member
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Aug 22, 2005
Messages
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Ok so this spacer / support is to allow more input shaft support? Or are you spacing back the entire trans? I have heard of zero instances with the stock manifolds. I run headers. Sanderson fc3's they are a bolt up.
 

bax

Contributor
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Aug 22, 2005
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also I would love to load your tune into my computer and see if it is better than mine. I think mine is still lacking is some areas.
 

bax

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Ok went and skimmed all 22 pages and the big problem seems to be input shaft engagement into the 400 crank. then the drawings you have are for adding that needed support. Then clutch plate clearance problems come into play with the support as drawn. No one ever said add to the input shaft on the zf? Seems like making the input shaft longer would of been much easier?
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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Ok so this spacer / support is to allow more input shaft support? Or are you spacing back the entire trans? I have heard of zero instances with the stock manifolds. I run headers. Sanderson fc3's they are a bolt up.

thats correct, as you saw in the thread...

Ok went and skimmed all 22 pages and the big problem seems to be input shaft engagement into the 400 crank. then the drawings you have are for adding that needed support. Then clutch plate clearance problems come into play with the support as drawn. No one ever said add to the input shaft on the zf? Seems like making the input shaft longer would of been much easier?

Correct this is to space the fly wheel back toward the transmission and thus you must use a 351w starter which has the longer reach from what I understand. As for the clutch.. i THINK i can reuse the 400 clutch that i have..

heres a picture of the spacer installed onto the flywheel and crank..

DSCN5089.jpg



as for replacing or extending? the input shaft on the big block zf-5...
It might be easier, however I'm not sure whats involved to add or swap input shafts. Some places (i 'm unable to find right now) mentioned that the diesel zf-5 input shaft is longer.. and could possibility be a swap, however That would mean a tear down of the zf, which I wanted to avoid if i could right now.. but again this is all new territory for me and learning as I go.


A few more pictures of the spacer i'm having made.. one with the bearing installed.

DSCN5079.jpg


DSCN5080.jpg


DSCN5081.jpg
 

bax

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Aug 22, 2005
Messages
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OK got it. Looks like the 12 inch clutch plate will not interfere with the pilot bearing modification. So I hope you are good from here on the clutch. Time to play starter games now. Your doing good.
 

bax

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If the starter works then thats good . If not it might be easier to build a flywheel with all the mods built into it. Then you could sell the wheel in a install kit.
 
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landshark99

landshark99

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Oct 13, 2011
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If the starter works then thats good . If not it might be easier to build a flywheel with all the mods built into it. Then you could sell the wheel in a install kit.

true, not sure what kind of market there would be, but I will mock it up, still looking for a 400 short block to mate everything too.. will work on it when iam back from vacation
 
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