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Front Suspension Compression Issues... Help!

TJK74

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
3,154
Loc.
Newark CA
So after finally getting around to installing the been sitting in my garage for ever cage arms and cycling the suspension I have come across a few problems questions and concerns. As you can see from the pics I have compressed the front end to the max where the new arms are both in contact with the frame. This gives me an inch of space still left between the bump stop and the frame and a good 2.5” or so before the compressed bump stop would serve any purpose at all keeping the arms from smacking into the frame.

#1) does anyone make a taller bump stop that would take up this space and serve fuction?

My Coil measures 20” unsprung and 16.5” at ride height. The space between the coil bucket to radius arm fully compressed is just under 11”. I have no accurate way to check but I’m assuming the coil would be bottoming against its self at this point due to the coil thickness being just under 3/4” and by looking at the coil it apears from the scuffs on the top and bottom of them that they have full bottomed in the past with the stock radius arms. And I would rather this load be stopped before putting an unwanted slam directly into the coil bucket.

#2) Does anyone know what the fully bottomed/compressed spring height would be?

And of coarse at this compression my track bar just grazes the front diff at it alway has in the past and seems pretty normal from other rigs I’ve seen but my other concern is with the tie rod clearance at the drop bracket and the fact that if its full compresses with the wheels anywhere from near being straight I’m going to be having bigger problems and from the pic you can see that I have contacted it in the past.
I was thinking a partial fix to this would be to ditch the drop bracket and pitman arm and do a track bar rise.

#3) I think this would raise the mounting point of the right side bump stop? If so does anyone know by how much?

any suggestion and input would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Gummi Bear

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Messages
3,647
Look at Timbren rubber springs.

You can get them in different 'rates', heights, and weight ratings.

You'll need to sit down with a catalog, and hopefully someone knowledgeable about them to select the right set. I'm planning to use them as bump stops front and rear.

http://www.timbren.com/

The local tractor/trailer supplies have them in this area, I've talked to the counter guy at Inland Truck Parts, and gotten a ton of info, and a brochure. When it's time for me to install them, I'll have some weights in hand (I'm going to weigh my rig), lengths and mounting brackets in place before I get some.
 
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TJK74

TJK74

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
3,154
Loc.
Newark CA
brian72 said:
put a block/spacer under your bump stop..

Yeah I thought about the block idea. Might do it as a temporary fix but i think looking at a bump stop body lift would drive me nut after a while ;)

Gummi Bear said:
Look at Timbren rubber springs.
You'll need to sit down with a catalog, and hopefully someone knowledgeable about them to select the right set. I'm planning to use them as bump stops front and rear.

Thanks checked out the website and they look like a possible option but I would definately need to get a catalog and do some careful measuring to figure out where they would actually bottom at. or better yet figure out at what height the coil spring bottoms at so I'm in the right ball park.
 

bronko69er

EB Addict
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
4,599
Loc.
Renton, WA
Collapsed coil height = wire diameter x number of turns (coils)
Example: 0.75" x 20 coils = 15" collapsed length

You could also bolt or tack weld a block or something to the underside of the frame.
I think most would agree to ditch the track bar drop and go with th riser instead.
You could build your own at such a height to compress the bump stop b4 your coil bottoms out, and lift the other bump stop to match.
 

lars

Contributor
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Jun 29, 2001
Messages
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NorCal flatlands
Trevor-

You discovered the gotcha with long radius arms. You are right, you need to limit the uptravel. WH sells urethane bumpstops that are 4" tall. They may still be marginal, in which case you'll have to make spacers. As for the coils, you've measured the ride height and wire diameter. Now count the number of coils along a given vertical line. Multiply that number by the wire diameter and subtract it from the ride height measurement. That's the uptravel you'll get to coil bind (fully compressed coils).

As for your steering stuff, my recommendation would be to toss the drop track bar mount and pitman arm and go back to stock. Do a tie rod over swap using parts of choice. I won't make a recommendation here. I've got the so-called "Chevy" conversion, but others are equally passionate about using F150 parts or spherical rod ends. Lots of places sell complete setups these days. I've attached a pic of my latest track bar mount on my axle (I don't have one showing everything finally welded up and installed, but the spacer shown doesn't exist anymore- it's all one solid piece now). With this setup my track bar is as long as my drag link and at about the same angle (no bump steer) and I am using a straight tube for a drag link (Performance Unlimited spherical rod ends at each end). With that setup I can bottom the suspension without the track bar touching anything. In fact the only uptravel limit is that when fully bottomed the track bar mount on the frame actually contacts the tie rod, though I really have to smash the bump stops to make it happen.

Oh yeah, I'm still running stock radius arms, though that doesn't have anything to do with what I described above.
 

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lars

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NorCal flatlands
steering knuckles vary

One more thing... I have James Duff steering knuckles. They use Ford style disc brakes but have steering arms cast like the drum brake EB D44 knuckles (higher, angled inboard more). If you do a disc brake swap using F150 parts instead of the Chevy swap, then you'll use the F150 knuckles, which have the steering arms angled in the same as the drum brake EB knuckles, but lower. In that case you won't have the track bar mount contacting the tie rod issue that I have. With a tie rod over swap using those knuckles the tie rod is still a lot higher (out of harm's way) than stock.
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,448
Loc.
Upper SoKA
Build the base under the bumpstops & the contact point on the frame such that even w/o a bumpstop there that is your first metal to metal contact point. That way you're still safe if you blow the urethane off.
 

Apogee

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,105
If you're looking for a win-win solution, step up to 37's or 39.5's and then you won't feel as bad about limiting your uptravel. ;D
 
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TJK74

TJK74

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Feb 21, 2003
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Newark CA
Apogee said:
If you're looking for a win-win solution, step up to 37's or 39.5's and then you won't feel as bad about limiting your uptravel. ;D

If I was to do that then I would feel bad about not being able to get my rig in the garage. :p
Not feeling bad about limiting the up travel. I actually would like to control it so that I'm neither bottoming the spring or the radius arm and making use of the bump stops. I'm not worried about it on the street or on the trail but am worried about it for when I go play out in the dunes at Glamis or Pismo where its quite common and easy to loft the front end and have it slam down or frequently bottom through the whooped out sections. I'm almost thinking that a set of air bumps are the way to go;D
 

tobinj

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Sep 19, 2005
Messages
358
Loc.
Martinsburg, WV
Would something like this hydraulic one work, you could mount it anywhere and it would look pretty trick as well
 

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Gummi Bear

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tobinj said:
Would something like this hydraulic one work, you could mount it anywhere and it would look pretty trick as well


Air/hydro bumps are neat, but spendy. Yes, they work awesome.
 
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TJK74

TJK74

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Feb 21, 2003
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tobinj said:
Would something like this hydraulic one work, you could mount it anywhere and it would look pretty trick as well

Yep thats the route I was thinking either the Kings, Race Runner or Fox air bumps;)
in the near future but it looks like it might be sooner than I planned.
 

tobinj

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Messages
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Thats the route I am definateley goin, I figure I'm doin a frame up resto might as well do it right. I'm glad you put this up because I am going Cage long arms as well and didn't know it would hit like that. If you get the hydro/air stops put some pics up when they are on.
 
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TJK74

TJK74

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racebronco said:
Did you move the new mount for the arms too far back??

Nope its right where its should be and the wheel base is dead on at 92". What makes you think its too far back??

tobinj said:
Thats the route I am definateley goin, I figure I'm doin a frame up resto might as well do it right. I'm glad you put this up because I am going Cage long arms as well and didn't know it would hit like that. If you get the hydro/air stops put some pics up when they are on.

I have a feeling that after I get home today and calculate out what the fully compressed coil length is I will find that the coil bottoms before the arms do since I haven't heard others complaining about their arms hitting the frame yet and the 3.5" coil definately should take up more space when fully compressed then the stockers did.
 

racebronco

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Oct 10, 2005
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Jeffersonville, IN
Because it looks like your tie rod is hittling your track bar drop bracket. if your axle was about 1/4" more foward it doesn't look like it would hit.. just my 2 cents..
 
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TJK74

TJK74

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racebronco said:
Because it looks like your tie rod is hittling your track bar drop bracket. if your axle was about 1/4" more foward it doesn't look like it would hit.. just my 2 cents..

That is due to the low hung nature of the track bar bracket and why it will soon come off and be replaced with a track bar rise set up. if you look at the track bar it is hitting the front diff as well

Ok the compressed coil length is 9-3/8" the spring coils actually measured out at 5/8" at 15 full coil wraps so something will have to be done cause the arms will definately be the first thing to make contact.

I dropped the axle down to 20" to slip in the coils and just found that i have a major driveline bind problem at the cardian joint that I didn't have before.
I'm running the 2 degree bushing and still seen to have a pretty steep driveline angle. Anyone else have this problem? I'll post some more with pics in the morning
 
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TJK74

TJK74

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73stallion said:
trevor, how tall are your bumpstops? they look like 3" tall ones, here's a set of 4.5" tall bumps; also, install a track bar riser.

Ben I was hoping I could get by with those but with the 3" ones I have, I still have a 1" space to the frame so with the 4.5" ones it would only give 1/2" of bump compression which would not be enough to keep the arms from still hitting the frame. I'll probably end up building some temporary spacers for the ones I have to hold me over till I'm ready to do some air bumps

Right now I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on with the drive line angle I have going on. Looks like I have way too much castor even with the 2 degree bushings. I even pulled them apart last night to double check they were in right and of coarse after all that they were so now what the heck

Anyone else have this problem? Its binding at the CV to the t-case
Cage arms, 2 degree bushings, 3.5" coils
 

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