Ford Racing Crate Engine Woes!! Please Help!!

[orygunbou71]

Hey all the saga with my new crate engine continues!! Heres the bio: 650 miles on motor bought a long block crate from ford racing!! Its a ford 5.0l 306ci crate engine with hydraulic roller lifters, roller cam and pedestal mounted roller rockers. Noticed a ticking/ knocking sound from valve train. Took it into ford thinking it needed new lifters and had new lifters sent from ford racing. When they took the valve covers off and went to take the rocker arms off the rocker arms were over torqued and every pedestal under the rocker arms was cracked in half or had fractures. Got a hold of ford racing and had a new set of pedestals overnighted and had ford install them. After install the motor was slightly better sounding but still had the tick/knock. A couple of the rockers on the exhaust and intake ports on several cylinders needed additional shims for the pedestals so i had a pedestal shim kit overnighted. Ford installed them and today i went to pick up the rig and all the pedestal rocker arms are shimed and torqued to spec but the tick/knock sound is as bad as when i brought to them. We never put the new lifters in because of the cracked pedestals we found to begin with. What the ford tech also noticed is that the lifter arms were all sort of pigeon toed and not siting straight after driving it maybe 20 miles even with proper shimming and torque specs on the pedestal mount rocker arms. What would cause this problem?? The ford tech recommended that i move away from pedestal mount roller rocker arms and go with a stud mount roller rocker arm setup with pushrod guides. he believe that this will fix the problem due to the infinite adjustibility. He also doesn't think its a bad lifter or valve either based on his diagnosis. My issue is that the motor is still under warranty and i asked the ford tech if he thought a new set of heads would fix the problem and he said that if it was his motor he would go with the stud mount valve train and that new heads that ford racing would send me would still have the pedestal mount valve train. I am at a crossroads what should i do bronco peeps?? Pull my crate engine out of my bronco and send the motor back to ford racing on my dime (approx $600) and have them repair my motor? or gamble on the stud mount roller rockers with pushrod guides? If i had my way i would have ford racing send me a new crate engine and pay for return shipping and i will just stuff my current crate engine in it and send it back to them for them to deal with it. But i would still have the pedestal mount valve train!! Any and all input would really help me in making my decision!! sorry for the long post/ rant but i am upset that you spend 5k on a long block to have it take a shit after 650 miles!!

 

[broncnaz]

That really sucks. While you expect a good product in the end that warrentee gets you. Thats what believing that a warrentee from a mail order company gets you. Sure its "ford" but really its not Ford. While Id rather have stud type heads there's no reason that pedastal heads wont work. Rocker arms do tend to pigeon toe a little. Its no big deal as long as the rocker arm stays on the valve tip. The only thing that shims do is reduce rocker arm preload which usually wont fix a ticking lifter. If you can figure out how much clearance you have on the ticking valves you might be able to use lash caps to take up the clearance. Although I think .040 is the smallest that are sold. Sounds like maybe some of the valves were ground down wrong if some need shims to reduce preload and others are ticking because of to much clearance.
Instead of spending big dollars on heads maybe try these. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-36655-16/overview/

 

[Broncobowsher]

I think the tech is more of an old school hot rodder. Millions of 5.0 mustangs (OK maybe not that many) have been severely flogged for decades with pedestal mounted rockers. They really are a well proven rocker arm. If you go with doing modifications to the engine, all that money on a crate engine with a warrantee turns into a crate engine without a warrantee.

Personally I would be on the phone with Ford racing, tell them that you still have a bum engine even after the dealer repairs. You no longer have a warm and fuzzy feeling about this engine, lets try another one. See what they have to say.

 

[fkngiant]

^^^^^
this

 

[73azbronco]

Double this^^^^^


However, I prefer pushrod guides....

 

[DJs74]

Sorry you are going through all this.

For me it's a no brainer (just like the other guys said), get Ford back on the phone and lay it all out for them just like you did above. Just simply let them know you paid "x" amount for a crate motor and you feel like you deserve "x" level of performance and quality / and not accepting a "y" amount of performance and quality.

Your decision to go crate motor versus building your own was probably based on buy it, install it, tune it and go / not buy it, install it and tear it apart and fix it. You deserve better with the cost of crate motors.

If you take it upon yourself to fix the valve train issues, you not only void your warranty but you are giving Ford a pass on an issue that they should clearly be made aware of and make right for you.

Not to cast further negative light on this but improper valve train installation, especially over-torqued to the point of causing rocker arm component failure could possibly have a trickle down affect on the rest of the valve train. IMO, everything from the rockers down to the camshaft is now suspect

As for pedestal vs. stud mount rockers - they are both good proven designs but if you see an opportunity and have the chance to upgrade in all this, I vote studs.

What is your current configuration? cylinder heads / camshaft / rockers?

Thanks and good luck

DJs74

 

[sprdv1]

Sorry for the long post/ rant but i am upset that you spend 5k on a long block to have it take a shit after 650 miles!!

Dude, I would be so pissed. Sorry you had to go thru that BS. Glad they're making it right for ya

I would definitely be on the phone as well with whoever you need to make it known of your disappointment with the performance

 

[broncosam]

That is a bunch of crap. I agree with others on this in that I'd be on the phone with Ford Racing and wearing them out till it was resolved. And by wearing them out I don't mean being nasty, but by calling them constantly and being a pest. But if you decide to take the Ford tech's advice on the screw in studs and guide plates,etc. Just be sure to install a set of hardened pushrods compatible with guide plates. A P.O. of my Bronco taught me what happens when you don't.

 

[cldonley]

Ford racing needs to give you a new motor. I bought a new Dodge p/u one time. Had the ticking, they replaced the valve train, had the ticking, they replaced the motor. Turned out it was a defective oil pump not providing adequate pressure. You dropped way too much coin to be screwing with that motor. Make 'em give you a new one. Even if you have to pay shipping, it's better than what you're going through right now and you keep the warranty.

 

[WorkerBee]

Man that sucks. I went through a ticking issue for months after dropping good money on a professionally built motor. I agree with everything above, you need a new motor. I tried to let the motor builder throw parts at it but in the end he needed to start over. I wish I would have done that the very first time I had the issue instead of spending months stressing and tearing it down repeatedly. Turns out it was a bad piston.

Hang in there. It is totally worth it once it's all fixed.

 

[bmc69]

I think the tech is more of an old school hot rodder. Millions of 5.0 mustangs (OK maybe not that many) have been severely flogged for decades with pedestal mounted rockers. They really are a well proven rocker arm. .

?? Really? I've never used that particular type of aluminum roller rocker arm (the ones in the PO's engine that had all the cracked pedestals) and certainly have not run across any in a factory engine before.

I have used some of Crane's pedestal mount roller rockers before (a set is on my 408c trail rig engine) but the pedestals were much beefier than those in the PO's engine, best I recall.

But regardless of that, like the others have said, I would be "all over" Ford on this one.

 

[toddz69]

A friend had a problem with his 427ci FRPP engine last year. Come to find out - Ford had installed the wrong distributor gear on a batch of those engines. My buddy pulled the engine and Ford paid to have it shipped back to them, repaired, and shipped back to my buddy. PITA but they covered him.

Todd Z.

 

[orygunbou71]

A friend had a problem with his 427ci FRPP engine last year. Come to find out - Ford had installed the wrong distributor gear on a batch of those engines. My buddy pulled the engine and Ford paid to have it shipped back to them, repaired, and shipped back to my buddy. PITA but they covered him.

Todd Z.

Hey did your buddy tear it down to the long block assembly to ship it back or did he leave it fully dressed? (carb, intake, fuel pump, water pump ect?? ) Also what did he do about re crating the engine because i don't have my crate anymore?? lastly how long did it take to get his motor sent back to him after repairs??

 

[hyghlndr]

If it was purchased on a credit card, call Ford one last time them hand off to the credit card company and let them work it out. Amazed at the power they have.

 

[toddz69]

Hey did your buddy tear it down to the long block assembly to ship it back or did he leave it fully dressed? (carb, intake, fuel pump, water pump ect?? ) Also what did he do about re crating the engine because i don't have my crate anymore?? lastly how long did it take to get his motor sent back to him after repairs??

Here's how my buddy's experience transpired:

_____________
Hi Todd,

We no longer had the original crate. Ford sent us a kit and a prepaid the freight to return it. The kit was something you bolt together then bolt down to a pallet which you must source, we found a nice Oak one, not a weak pine one.
They told us that pre-paid freight was not the normal procedure. Although they never admitted it, I think they knew they had an issue and were super cooperative. They told me it was ok to leave some of my stuff on the engine.
I removed the carb, but left the intake I bought and left a few items on it like my water neck and remote oil adaptor. I removed all the front dress (accessories). Left the spark plugs in, taped over the exhaust ports. They send you instructions when you get the RMA number from them.


It was gone for a while, like 6-8 weeks? I don't recall. It was a bit difficult to get info on the process and they never did admit fault nor tell me why it had an issue. They did tell me what parts they replaced and what work they did.
One day I got a ship alert and there it was at the local freight terminal ready for me to come get. All in all I don't know who it could of gone better. Super happy despite not knowing what was happening or when it would be done for over a month. Patience is a virtue I guess. We are 99% sure Ford got a bad batch of billet camshafts that had improper heat treat so they only last 500 miles with the steel cam gear that they tell you to use. BTW, we shipped it to them with my distributor also. It came back with a new steel cam gear. Been running great since then.
___________________________

Todd Z.