englewoodcowboy
Lick Creek Restorations
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 4,200
As most of you know and are familiar with the Duck, I tried to spare no expense wherever I could and what was not priority. Those of you who know me personally also know I have worked hard to develop a great relationship with most of our vendors so this is a comparison, not a bash and a good line on what to expect with the various vendors that I have personally tried. I tried to do a comparison as quasi scientific as I could and here are the results with pics.
Starting off we are comparing Wild Horses 2.5" Premium lift to Duffs 2.5". We switched from stock radius arms to TRex. On the stock system with WH 2.5" I ran 7° C Bushings and had a final caster of 6° D side and 5.4° P side. We had a total droop measured from the bottom of the frame at the spring bucket to the top of the axle of 13" with or without the shocks attached. This is caused by the limiting bind of the factory arms and bushings. We did a flex test with our fork lift to see what else would change if anything and we lifted the vehicle on the rear pass tire till the front tire just was starting to lift off the ground and we had a measurement of 29".
Now we worked most of the week to swap suspensions, we remained with the Bilstien 5100 series shocks and everything else was changed. We also added a Torque Tamer on the rear diff to better control axle wrap. With the new suspension installed we repeated the same tests and measurements. With the front shocks both connected and disconnected we had a droop of 16" so we gained 3" of downward movement simply by switching the radius arms which help reduce the bind at the pivot point. When we flexed it we also repeated the test and gained an additional 3" of flex. The only tradeoff I lost with this conversion is about 1.5° of caster after the fact. With the TRex, they come with a built in 4° offset and I went with the 4° C bushings. Due to the added droop I also had to lightly clearance the edges of the front double cordon on the drive shaft as I was getting to its limits. If you want to run this suspension with 7° c bushings and get about 7° total caster you will def need to invest in a high angle drive shaft or look into having your C knuckles cut and rotated to maintain acceptable driveline angles.
Onto the drivability, first and foremost, if you have any axle wrap, low gears, high power motor, large tires, any and all of the above, you have wrap. Get a torque Tamer, it sops that in its tracks and does not interfere with ride quality or suspension movement. I noticed right away, no more rear end squat when I get on the skinny pedal as well as my once abrupt shifts from 1st to 2nd are smoothed out. The biggest benefit of all is I am no longer getting excessive nose dive on hard braking, the whole vehicle tends to squat even now because the axle is being controlled and I am almost certain it is helping to reduce the braking distance some. It is a great investment in my opinion and will be included on all of our future builds that are getting any of the above causes or enhancers added. With the overall ride comfort, Duff springs are a little longer when side by side to WH however there is good reason, WH are a 3 stage spring while Duff is a 4 stage. Duff also has a softer stage in there and it helps tremendously when hitting road bumps etc. The biggest difference I noticed right away was the vehicle seemed to soak up the bumps and pot holes rather than react to them abruptly. With the TRex arms removing the binding and allowing the suspension to move more freely I can feel a slight difference in added body roll. It is still not enough for me to want to add a sway bar yet but I could see where a good sway bar could make it handle like a modern vehicle if that is what you are after, for me, a slight body roll will help you subconsciously keep the speed down in sharp turns which is always a good thing I think.
Bottom line, my overall opinion is we have found our new go to suspension setup for our builds. When our customers want more street friendly we will add a sway bar for them but outside of that you cannot go wrong with either suspension system. I was very happy with both and would use WH again if a customer requests it with no issues but my personal seat of the pants feel and comfort, Duffs has truly knocked this one out of the park in this configuration.
Starting off we are comparing Wild Horses 2.5" Premium lift to Duffs 2.5". We switched from stock radius arms to TRex. On the stock system with WH 2.5" I ran 7° C Bushings and had a final caster of 6° D side and 5.4° P side. We had a total droop measured from the bottom of the frame at the spring bucket to the top of the axle of 13" with or without the shocks attached. This is caused by the limiting bind of the factory arms and bushings. We did a flex test with our fork lift to see what else would change if anything and we lifted the vehicle on the rear pass tire till the front tire just was starting to lift off the ground and we had a measurement of 29".
Now we worked most of the week to swap suspensions, we remained with the Bilstien 5100 series shocks and everything else was changed. We also added a Torque Tamer on the rear diff to better control axle wrap. With the new suspension installed we repeated the same tests and measurements. With the front shocks both connected and disconnected we had a droop of 16" so we gained 3" of downward movement simply by switching the radius arms which help reduce the bind at the pivot point. When we flexed it we also repeated the test and gained an additional 3" of flex. The only tradeoff I lost with this conversion is about 1.5° of caster after the fact. With the TRex, they come with a built in 4° offset and I went with the 4° C bushings. Due to the added droop I also had to lightly clearance the edges of the front double cordon on the drive shaft as I was getting to its limits. If you want to run this suspension with 7° c bushings and get about 7° total caster you will def need to invest in a high angle drive shaft or look into having your C knuckles cut and rotated to maintain acceptable driveline angles.
Onto the drivability, first and foremost, if you have any axle wrap, low gears, high power motor, large tires, any and all of the above, you have wrap. Get a torque Tamer, it sops that in its tracks and does not interfere with ride quality or suspension movement. I noticed right away, no more rear end squat when I get on the skinny pedal as well as my once abrupt shifts from 1st to 2nd are smoothed out. The biggest benefit of all is I am no longer getting excessive nose dive on hard braking, the whole vehicle tends to squat even now because the axle is being controlled and I am almost certain it is helping to reduce the braking distance some. It is a great investment in my opinion and will be included on all of our future builds that are getting any of the above causes or enhancers added. With the overall ride comfort, Duff springs are a little longer when side by side to WH however there is good reason, WH are a 3 stage spring while Duff is a 4 stage. Duff also has a softer stage in there and it helps tremendously when hitting road bumps etc. The biggest difference I noticed right away was the vehicle seemed to soak up the bumps and pot holes rather than react to them abruptly. With the TRex arms removing the binding and allowing the suspension to move more freely I can feel a slight difference in added body roll. It is still not enough for me to want to add a sway bar yet but I could see where a good sway bar could make it handle like a modern vehicle if that is what you are after, for me, a slight body roll will help you subconsciously keep the speed down in sharp turns which is always a good thing I think.
Bottom line, my overall opinion is we have found our new go to suspension setup for our builds. When our customers want more street friendly we will add a sway bar for them but outside of that you cannot go wrong with either suspension system. I was very happy with both and would use WH again if a customer requests it with no issues but my personal seat of the pants feel and comfort, Duffs has truly knocked this one out of the park in this configuration.
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