Explorer Power Steering Pump to Reservoir Pressure?

[nvrstuk]

Thanks Steve. I've heard the full hydro guys have flow and severe heat issues unless they go with a well designed mega buck system but never thought of a lightly pressurized system being used for less "full assault" type builds. Great stuff. thx. Would like to see a build like this up close.

I had the Exploder pump and was having the flow issues with it even before the HB. Josh at PSC said the inlet hose dia was the issue. I'm a pump guy and it all made sense so I went to a 12 AN. That cured it but I really didn't like the look of the cheap looking plastic reservoir waving at me when I opened the hood and I was going to move my alum York for the 3rd time as the Exploder ac pump experiment for OBA was over for me. So I built an accessory bracket for the DS, mounted my York on top and the CBR pump below with the design of it to maximize my pump efficiency. So, large dia inlet, large reservoir within 12" and 6" above for good head and after a couple small mods to the CBR style pump it's been working great after I found an oil that didn't scream at 0 deg F. I tried the fancy, schmancy GM designed stuff for oil fields up north and it screamed bloody murder.

TS, thanks for the pressure relief valve link. I like your reservoir pics! I do need to find a prv that will be 100% sealed or at least screened/filtered to the atmosphere before pressure is built up. It looks like the one that's in the pic could have wind blown sand enter the top of the valve when it has to physically open/close?? I currently run a 18-20" length of hose off a 90deg fitting as a vent hose to keep sand and dirt from just being able to work it's way into my reservoir and would do the same for this. Should prevent any issues. Benefit would be a sealed reservoir if it's no longer vertical.

 

[nvrstuk]

I've done it again- POST STEALER!!

Sorry Ben. I think your question has been answered but I did RUN with it!! lol

 

[ntsqd]

TZ's hose clamp is at least part of the answer Ben is looking for. Replacing the hose or if possible cutting off the mangled portion is the rest of it. West Marine is a source, and I think that Pegasus, as mentioned by TZ is another source for those clamps. They are not inexpensive, and the original ABA's used to have and may still have a guaranty that you cannot strip them with a nut driver. They are very well made hose clamps.

See the 1/4" tube stub in the "Finshed" pic? that is the vent exit. Tube is a 'candy cane' inside the reservoir. I added a 1/8NPT bung to the bottom of the reservoir so now that valve points mostly down.

Prior to starting on building the PS reservoir I had done some research on the topic. Nowhere did I find mention that a non-vented reservoir was one way to achieve hydro-head on the pump. I didn't find much on the topic at all, most just buy one. I didn't and don't like the reservoirs that just dump the fluid back into the reservoir without concern for entraining air in the fluid. That is what every one that I've seen on the market does. I wanted a PS reservoir built like a serious racing dry sump oil tank, with features designed to remove the air from the fluid. Some dwell time in the reservoir is also why I picked some a large starting point, but even it sees a fluid exchange rate that is amazing!

 

[ba123]

Yeah, I wasn't planning on sticking with that clamp and it's not the one I had on there before--it is just one that I added that is stainless and I could crank the crap out of it. Again, when I put that on, the leak did stop but after a couple drives came back and I figured out I am getting pressure and that is the weak point.

And Brian, no worries at all about the hijak! I've done my share and that's what this is all for anyway, right?

Todd, thanks for showing your setup. This just confirms that it is either my hose or the cap that is the issue and will get that type of clamp or a fuel line clamp as well.

 

[ksagis]

Easiest place for me to buy them is one of thier stores. Note that it's not the least expensive, just the easiest. West Marine Silicone hoses are where I first became aware of those clamps, but since then I try to use them on all project vehicles anywhere I can't easily not use a hose clamp on any hose.

The pump in Snowball is a Saginaw "canned ham" from an E-250, only with a modified version of the Chevy 1t's remote reservoir housing on it. -10AN feed line of about 10" long. Slightly downhill with a tube 90° hose end at the reservoir (pointed up) and a 45¯ tube type hose end at the pump. Yeller's noise description is pretty accurate. This happened at sea level.
As originally laid out the system had a regular hydraulic system spin-on filter in the return line. Early in trying to figure out the cause of the cavitation I by-passed and removed it. When I put my reservoir back I will be re-installing that too. It just about doubles the fluid in the system. It was a discussion with a guy at Lee PS that put me onto needing hydro-head pressure. From reading this thread it sounds like it isn't always needed, but it never hurts to have it.

Lee told me something interesting when I sent them the steering box and the pump off the Wagon (one of the type of pump found on LSx engines, is that the 'CBR' pump?). They don't rebuild those with the expectation of reusing the OEM reservoir. Those come back converted to a -10AN inlet and you must run a remote reservoir.

This is the pressure relief valve that I've added to my own fabricated reservoir: https://www.mcmaster.com/1093K3/

And as I'm rather proud of it in spite of my deteriorating AL welding skills, some linked pics of said reservoir:
Pic_1
Pic_2
Pic_3
Pic_4
Finished
Early Test Fit
What I made it from

Look’s great!

Look’s like the two fittings on top are the returns, one for steering and one for HB?

Was wondering if you considered that might configuration might cause a swirl and added any features like baffles inside the rez to combat that?

 

[ntsqd]

Yes, one from the steering box and one from the H-B.

Swirl was a design goal. I wanted the fluid to swirl around the wall and then slide down onto the shallowly conic baffle shown below the return fittings in Pic_4. This is a common feature of dry sump oil tanks. Usually in those the baffles are a lot more complex starting with that baffle has a bunch of holes in it. I wasn't going to get that involved unless it proved necessary.
Swirl it does! The box return fluid makes it almost to the H-B return before starting to fall down the wall of the reservoir.

 

[ntsqd]

FWIW I just bought two ABA size 12 hose clamps @ West Marine. ~$10 each. They're a bit big for a 3/4" heater hose, but they'll work. The '73's radiator shot an impressive geyser straight at the license plate of the car in front of me while on the fwy Weds on the way home. I knew that it had some fin rot, didn't realize it had gotten that bad. Putting the 79's 4 core 'Desert Cooler' cored radiator in it and needed them to plug a heater return.

 

[nvrstuk]

Popped the cap & made it home just fine?

 

[ntsqd]

Not with that geyser. The guy in the County truck in the next lane over looked me with a "Are you seeing this?" look on his face and I flashed back "How could I possibly miss it!" look. It was out of coolant so fast that the gauge never registered it over-heating. Called the hook. On pulling the old radiator it had about 1.5 quarts of coolant left in the system. I've been milking this extremely tired engine for some time while I decide what I'm going to do about it. The 5.3/4L65E that was for it is going in the Wagon, it gets the Wagon's current warmed-up TBI 350.

My turn to hijack a thread.......

 

[ba123]

Back to my stuff…it has to be the hose. Everything else tests out fine. Cap released pressure somewhere around 10psi so I guess pressure was never the issue.

I have some a test fittings I used and my bike pump that has a dial connected to that pump feed line inlet.

 

[ntsqd]

Looks to me like the $10 fix is trim the hose and get one of the ABA clamps. FWIW they are a 7mm drive hex.
The $100 fix is to convert the pump to a -10 or -12 inlet and get a matching Push-Lock / Barb-Tite hose end.

 

[ba123]

Looks to me like the $10 fix is trim the hose and get one of the ABA clamps. FWIW they are a 7mm drive hex.
The $100 fix is to convert the pump to a -10 or -12 inlet and get a matching Push-Lock / Barb-Tite hose end.

Yup. Tried to find some clamps at the local auto store, but nothing good. Napa has some but not close. Ordered some.

I asked Lee’s about converting that pump fitting and they said it needs to be machined and that’s what they do for their Explorer pump. That’s what I would do if I ever thought I needed more pump but don’t think I do.

$$$$
https://leepowersteering.com/produc...hort-front-runner?_pos=1&_sid=2f525a95f&_ss=r

They might have misspoken though so if anyone has changed that pump inlet, please lmk cause I did consider doing that.

 

[ntsqd]

I'd guess that since the tube appears to be a press-fit that machining would be required. Which means the pump has to come completely apart. Not out of reasonable to do in a garage at home, if well enough equipped. A steel ORB X AN adapter fitting (less the o-ring) or AN x AN union can work for the adapter. Just need to be able to produce the right size (big) SAE NF threads in the hole and insure that the top of the boss around the hole is flat, smooth, and perpendicular to the hole. Then the steel fitting with a copper crush washer dials it in.

 

[nvrstuk]

Dang Ben, that reservoir is a work of ART! Looks great.

 

[ba123]

I replaced the hose and it looks good, but pouring rain the past few days so can't test.

I asked Lee's how much for just the pump since I don't need the kit and it's not cheap but not outrageous so maybe I'll do that at some point if I ever want more. BUT, one thing I noticed on their info page is that they recommend their own PS fluid or "AC Delco or Valvoline non synthetic power steering fluid will work as a second choice" and not to "USE ATF OR ANY TYPE OF SYNTHETIC FLUID". Pretty sure the Ford spec is Type F ATF and I'm using Synthetic Amsoil Super Shift ATF (Type F Spec).

What are people's thoughts on this? Or am I opening a whole other can of worms that's already been hashed out?

 

[ntsqd]

I think that if you dive deep on PS fluid vs. ATF (bobistheoilguy.com?) that what you'll find to be the largest difference is that ATF has seal-swelling additives in it where PSF does not. And I could have that backwards, but I don't think so because adding ATF to an engine with hard rubber seals is one way to get a little more life out of them.

80's era Toyota PS systems spec Dex/Mercon ATF. Other PS systems spec PSF. Other than the seal swellers they appear to be interchangeable. Could likely even use (gasp!!) hydraulic fluid in a PS system......

Have to ask them about the non-synthetic part. No idea there, except for perhaps seal-swellers again. Dunno........

 

[toddz69]

I replaced the hose and it looks good, but pouring rain the past few days so can't test.

I asked Lee's how much for just the pump since I don't need the kit and it's not cheap but not outrageous so maybe I'll do that at some point if I ever want more. BUT, one thing I noticed on their info page is that they recommend their own PS fluid or "AC Delco or Valvoline non synthetic power steering fluid will work as a second choice" and not to "USE ATF OR ANY TYPE OF SYNTHETIC FLUID". Pretty sure the Ford spec is Type F ATF and I'm using Synthetic Amsoil Super Shift ATF (Type F Spec).

What are people's thoughts on this? Or am I opening a whole other can of worms that's already been hashed out?

I'll be curious what your experience is with the hose and new clamp. I hope it works well. IF the pump ever dies, it might not be a bad idea to upgrade to the Lee pump (I have one on the shelf in its mounting bracket for that very purpose someday as well).

As for the fluid, I've run the GM Power steering fluid for years in mine with no deleterious effects. Lee modified my Explorer pump back when they still did that and Tommy Lee always said to use the GM fluid up until they developed their own stuff and now they feel that's better. Paul at Hydratech also always told me to use GM power steering fluid with his hydroboost so I figure with those component authorities, I can't go wrong.

Todd Z.

 

[ba123]

I love the idea of Lee's pump and will most likely do it at some point but a stock pump is only like $63 and the Lee's is 5 times that.

But if this hose doesn't work, that's worth a few hundred bucks of sanity right there.

 

[nvrstuk]

I'd go synthetic in a heartbeat over conventional for PS fluid and follow their recommendation. Hopefully they just aren't getting a cut on supplying fluid but have actually determined that it works better for their pumps. Syn definitely handles heat better and will last longer.

No idea if it's flammable or not.

 

[ba123]

I'd go synthetic in a heartbeat over conventional for PS fluid and follow their recommendation. Hopefully they just aren't getting a cut on supplying fluid but have actually determined that it works better for their pumps. Syn definitely handles heat better and will last longer.

No idea if it's flammable or not.

That’s exactly how I feel about synthetic and why I use it for everything I can. I don’t think I have anything but synthetic fluid now that I think about it. Brake, Trans, Oil, Gear, PS…

Lee’s stuff says NOT to use synthetic. It does not say if theirs is or is not, but since they say not to use synthetic, I’d bet theirs is not.