Making sure axles are square with each other.

[joshua]

Hey guys, I’m dealing with a pretty bent up frame in my home garage. Using chains, jacks, and an Ibeam to get it back square. And I have. Sort of…

All the measurements are coming out right with in an 1/8 But my concern is my rear left frame rail definitely has an S shape to it. But everything thing on the horns lines up where it should with the tape measure. Bumper is on and the rails are level.

I can live with the slight bends in the frame. This is never going to win any pageants. What I am concerned with is driving 70 down an interstate. When I measure the leaf spring hangers in (X) pattern on many different points in the frame, including between the hangers them self’s it comes with in an 1/8 of an inch.

Still not convinced because I can clearly see the bend I decided I should put on all the suspension and measure the axles in an X pattern for that.

But then I got to thinking that wouldn’t come out right without weight on it as the front axle will be pushed over to one side.?.

Do i put it together and just do 2 (straight) measurements between the 2 axles? Should I even put it together if it’s just frame and suspension, because I won’t get the accurate measurements?

I’m going to be plating the rails, as it will make me feel better after bending them back straight ish. And I know I won’t be bending anything after it’s plated. But this is the last step I have before painting the frame and putting things back together. Getting the frame square has taking like 3 months already

Hopefully that makes sense, as I don’t think pictures would be much help

 

[joshua]

actually you can see it in a picture

 

[Speedrdr]

If the left front of the frame isn’t in the same plane as the left rear frame is, won’t it tend to make you have to move your spring perches over? Just thinking out loud.

 

[jamesroney]

Put a carpenters square on the rear crossmember an measure for square to the left frame rail. Check it against the right rail. That left rail sure looks bent to me. I am puzzled because you say that the bumper fits. It shouldn't. Check the frame rail center line distance in several places. Do a cross X measurement from the Left front bumper hole to the right rear. Figure out where it is bent, and straighten it.

You say that the rails are "level." Level to what, and where? The only thing that matters is that the frame rails are parallel, and the bumpers are parallel. It's very frustrating to mount a Bronco body, and have the bumper sit crooked to the grill. Unfortunately, the body mounts to the rear of the frame, and the grill / core support / hood / cowl want to follow the tub. So it is super important to get the frame horns / bumpers parallel (because you can't shim them!)

Now is the time to measure everything, and straighten if necessary.

Best of luck!

 

[joshua]

Put a carpenters square on the rear crossmember an measure for square to the left frame rail. Check it against the right rail. That left rail sure looks bent to me. I am puzzled because you say that the bumper fits. It shouldn't. Check the frame rail center line distance in several places. Do a cross X measurement from the Left front bumper hole to the right rear. Figure out where it is bent, and straighten it.

You say that the rails are "level." Level to what, and where? The only thing that matters is that the frame rails are parallel, and the bumpers are parallel. It's very frustrating to mount a Bronco body, and have the bumper sit crooked to the grill. Unfortunately, the body mounts to the rear of the frame, and the grill / core support / hood / cowl want to follow the tub. So it is super important to get the frame horns / bumpers parallel (because you can't shim them!)

Now is the time to measure everything, and straighten if necessary.

Best of luck!

It’s is bent. No question. And I bent it with the jack putting the horn on the correct place to accept the bumper. It is basically (s) shaped. That’s why the bumper fits even though it is bent. I didn’t realize it was bent farther back in the horn. I did measurements of the entire frame. And it all lines up with in an 1/8 I can bend that rail straight, but then the bumper won’t fit as the end of the rail will be to wide.

Should i leave the bumper on and try pulling from the spring hanger? And chain the bumper to a tree, so in concentrates the pull to the center of that rail. Idk I guess maybe I’m just frustrated as it was hard as hell to get it to where, at least according to the tape it’s square.


This picture gives you an idea of what it is actually doing

 

[jamesroney]

It’s is bent. No question. And I bent it with the jack putting the horn on the correct place to accept the bumper. It is basically (s) shaped. That’s why the bumper fits even though it is bent. I didn’t realize it was bent farther back in the horn. I did measurements of the entire frame. And it all lines up with in an 1/8 I can bend that rail straight, but then the bumper won’t fit as the end of the rail will be to wide.

Should i leave the bumper on and try pulling from the spring hanger? And chain the bumper to a tree, so in concentrates the pull to the center of that rail. Idk I guess maybe I’m just frustrated as it was hard as hell to get it to where, at least according to the tape it’s square.


This picture gives you an idea of what it is actually doing

Gotcha. Are you any good at welding? If you split the rail with a cut off wheel, it will "move" much easier. Then you can weld the "slice" back together. I'm not sure how it can have a big "s" in it and still be square...but you have a much better view. (unless the RH rail is similarly "S" shaped.

You will want to cut some nice wooden 4x4's to the correct height for your desired lift. Once you have the blocks, you can put them between the axle tube and frame to set ride-height. I usually leave the front coils out until the very end. You'll have to strap the rear with the leaf springs in place. But it doesn't really take much tension. 500# or so per strap usually does it.

 

[joshua]

Gotcha. Are you any good at welding? If you split the rail with a cut off wheel, it will "move" much easier. Then you can weld the "slice" back together. I'm not sure how it can have a big "s" in it and still be square...but you have a much better view. (unless the RH rail is similarly "S" shaped.

You will want to cut some nice wooden 4x4's to the correct height for your desired lift. Once you have the blocks, you can put them between the axle tube and frame to set ride-height. I usually leave the front coils out until the very end. You'll have to strap the rear with the leaf springs in place. But it doesn't really take much tension. 500# or so per strap usually does it.

Here’s a better look.

 

[joshua]

Should I cut so relief cuts like this?

 

[jamesroney]

Here’s a better look.

What does the right side (passenger) rail look like?

 

[jamesroney]

Should I cut so relief cuts like this?

No, that is the frame FLANGE. Don't want to cut those! I'd just slice the inside frame RAIL (the vertical part) on just one side.

 

[joshua]

What does the right side (passenger) rail look like?

Looks it seems to look right. A square seems to confirm it. I do have some plate tacked on there. So that may make things funking looking because the plate doesn’t go all the way back on the right side like it does on the left.

I can pretty easily pull those plates off if you think it’s necessary for pictures.

Would you agree the bend on the left rail looks like the middle needs to be pulled out and the end where the bumper is should stay there. Like that has a big bow in it rather than just a bend?

 

[joshua]

The left rail looks like what I drew I. The picture.

 

[jamesroney]

Do you have a large carpenters square? Need to know whether the rear crossmember is still square in the “ladder-frame”. Also going to want you to do a measurement for me. Need you to scribe a precise line about 24 inches from the end of each horn, and center punch dead middle of the frame flange. One on each rail. Then give me a measurement for diagonal. Hope that makes sense.

 

[jamesroney]

And yes, from here, it looks like the left frame rail is “s” shaped. But you can stretch a string on the top of the frame to see how much, and which way.

 

[joshua]

Do you have a large carpenters square? Need to know whether the rear crossmember is still square in the “ladder-frame”. Also going to want you to do a measurement for me. Need you to scribe a precise line about 24 inches from the end of each horn, and center punch dead middle of the frame flange. One on each rail. Then give me a measurement for diagonal. Hope that makes sense.

I’m going to get a large square rn. All I have is smaller ones

 

[joshua]

@jamesroney

Here are some photos. The frame isn’t square. But it’s only off by an 1/8 off from the measurements I’m getting. See photo with (X) pattern for the locations I measured from.

The right rail is also bent in a goofy spot. I think the bend starts just before the spring hanger. There was a bronco body on here before I started working on the frame. But it had home made bumpers. I’m sure because stock ones wouldnt fit. And the rear body mounts on the frame were gone. Basically making it work I think. Well the body bolts.

The front horns are messed up as well so I can’t measure by those. I was just going to put the body back on and figure out where they need to go. Maybe by cutting the passenger one to get it all to work. As it just holds up the fender.

I believe the left rear has a twist in it as well. And is (S) shaped. I’m at a loss on that one. I’m trying to figure out how the hell to make it straight? Or is the only hope cutting it off and starting over?



But I need the rears in the right spots because of the drive line of course. In my opinion the frame is in spec. It’s Less than a quarter inch off. So it’s just the (Horns) that are out of whack is what I’m getting.

I do have a perfect back up frame. But it doesn’t have a title. And I really wanted to make a nice one after doing this first one. And learning from it. This bronco doesn’t have to be perfect. But I would like to do the best that I can. As I bought it when I was a very young man and drove it for years. Before letting it sit for 20yrs lol

 

[73azbronco]

with it mostly stripped, I'd take it to a good body shop that can put it on a rack and not have to cut or weld anything.

 

[joshua]

with it mostly stripped, I'd take it to a good body shop that can put it on a rack and not have to cut or weld anything.

I did think about this. But after a few calls, it would seem in my area it be cheaper to buy an aftermarket frame. Or close to the same price. If I can’t figure it out, a brand new frame might be the route. Reason I haven’t is I’m worried about EPA cracking down and looking for any reason to get old vehicles off the road. And I could see them changing laws to try and nitpick every which way to accomplish that.

I’m in Rochester mn if anyone knows a place that would even want to look at it. I think I get the, I don’t want to deal with it prices from the body shops. Lol.

 

[73azbronco]

Look at craigslit, body guys, then aske around. This isnt straightening a 2024 jeep frame, they just need to get it close.

 

[nvrstuk]

I sure agree with your concern here and I quote ya :

"Reason I haven’t is I’m worried about EPA cracking down and looking for any reason to get old vehicles off the road. And I could see them changing laws to try and nitpick every which way to accomplish that."

I live in Wa State and it's getting worse than CA, well, probably not but...

How would a '2025 frame help if you still have to license it?? Smog laws (state or nat'l) is smog right??