D60 to D44 ball joint compatibility?

[mofoco1]

OK anyone know if the taper on the d60 balls joints is the same as 79 Bronco knuckles? Wondering if they were the same height then maybe have the knuckles machine to accept them if they were larger diameter but same height and taper. Then I could use the Dynatrac ones? Has anyone tried something like this?. I had good luck on the with the HD Napas I put on the D60 on the Centurion, but that was about 4 or 5 years ago so they may have been in the US....Mo

 

[Ethansdad73]

i subsribed to this to see what the answer was and nothing.. free bump

 

[beaux312]

are you talking about the tie rod ends?

 

[mofoco1]

Comparo

Talking ball joints, Yeh surprised that no one has chimed in. I asked, because I went to the parts store to compare them and the d60 upper looks almost identical in body size, it had knurls though unlike the smooth bore on the 44's but it would fit. The difference stems in the length of the stud. It is longer but looks to have the same taper. I started this to see if they were any stronger gain if I whacked the stud to size. But if you looked at it I don't think you could tell a difference. The lower is another bird unless the counter guy pulled the wrong part, the lower was huge and would never fit unless you reamed the knuckle. So there you go, hope other will jump in...Mo

 

[broncnaz]

I think your way off on your own here. Im sure D60 ball joints are bigger than D44 balljoints and machining would weaken the knuckle more than what ball joint stenght Would give you. Your over thinking the ball joint situation broncos are just not heavy enough to require specail ball joints.
Quite few few ball joints have knurls nowadays so its not kimited to D60 ball jointd

 

[mofoco1]

comparo

Well as I stated," Unless the counter guy pulled the wrong parts" I saw what I saw. The part at least the body was the same size in circumference and height, the stud was taller, but there was enough material to cut the threads off and redrill the cotter pin hole, the taper engagement area would not be touched and remained as factory. Again IF there was any value, strength wise gained and/ or if you gained any added steering geometry then I would consider doing it. For me all my added upgrades are for the sake of having them whether they are immediately being put to use or not. May or may not ever need it, but they are there if the situation arises. I am curious though if there are any added values irregardless. ......Mo

 

[broncnaz]

If it was the same sized body and only the lenght of the stud was different I dont see where that would make it any stronger. If it was a viable upgrade or swap then lots of people would do it. So at most you would really only be modifying a part to make it fit thats no better than the stock part. Rethreading the shaft might be a PITA as well unless you have some way to hold it to kep it from turning. If you really want to use dynatec ball joints then you may want to contact them see what they have for D44's as they may already have some that will fit without cutting or rethreading needed.

overall I dont see where there would be any gain anywhere by using D60 ball joints.

 

[mofoco1]

Ball joint compatibilty d60 and d44

Already checked with Dynatrac, they said that it would never make 4 BJ's, I though it was kind smug, but their business is 60;s so go figure. By the way you would not have to re-thread the stud. The threaded portion is left untouched( theoretically as I would only do this id there was any gain) you would have to drill for the cotter. So to recapped I guess it is possible to use 2 uppers just cut the stud to size as the lower is shorter and doesn't even need a cotter hole, and could even be done slow to not affect the heat treatment. I wish someone with d60 knowledge would chime in here. The lower d60 joint looked to have a bigger dia. shaft. This thread was started to find out if there was any strength gain, I have not heard of or seen anyone mention this at all yet. This is what I am after. I will be upgrading not this but the next EB to a shortened Hi pin d44 as I really don't need the weight of a 60. But if I can incorporate anything beefier I will ie; u-joints and if possible BJ's...Mo

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Again, Why?

The same ball joints came factory under 3/4 ton trucks with Dana 44s (and 10 bolts in 1988+). I see no reason to even waste a second thought on beefing up any component on a Dana 44.

 

[Devin]

Sorry for the hijack, but:

Holy cow! 76BFH lives! How the heck have you been? We have severely missed your bluntness and straight-forward answers.

 

[bmc69]

OK anyone know if the taper on the d60 balls joints is the same as 79 Bronco knuckles? Wondering if they were the same height then maybe have the knuckles machine to accept them if they were larger diameter but same height and taper. Then I could use the Dynatrac ones? Has anyone tried something like this?. I had good luck on the with the HD Napas I put on the D60 on the Centurion, but that was about 4 or 5 years ago so they may have been in the US....Mo

I know that I've completely blown up the D44 knuckles where the ball joint presses in...left the entire ball joint hanging on the axle "C". so you sure wouldn't want to make that hole any bigger.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Sorry for the hijack, but:

Holy cow! 76BFH lives! How the heck have you been? We have severely missed your bluntness and straight-forward answers.

Alive, well, and pissed off at Dana 44's. I just replaced a broken upper yesterday on my GPW.

 

[Devin]

Alive, well, and pissed off at Dana 44's. I just replaced a broken upper yesterday on my GPW.

Nice. Good to hear from you again.

 

[mofoco1]

76BFH I know that we can use them on the 3/4t but that's only cause Ford could and it was another option to the more expensive d60. If they could have figured a way to use the same one on all three and saved money as well as not significantly loose strength you bet they would have. But we still have not answered the original question. Is there any significant gain in a d60 ball joint (and only the upper at that, as that is the only one that would fit without modifying the knuckle ear). Guess you could use the lower and ream the lower hole on the C to accept the larger diameter taper and stud. But is getting to hard into this. I am thinking that the d44 and d60 upper is exactly the same in strength, the lower probably not so as the d60 is listed as being able to tow more so strength has to be more. If anyone can disprove this then I will listen with an open mind.....76 those slots are looking real nice after some polishing, Thanks man....Mo

 

[76Broncofromhell]

76BFH I know that we can use them on the 3/4t but that's only cause Ford could and it was another option to the more expensive d60. If they could have figured a way to use the same one on all three and saved money as well as not significantly loose strength you bet they would have. But we still have not answered the original question. Is there any significant gain in a d60 ball joint (and only the upper at that, as that is the only one that would fit without modifying the knuckle ear).

Guess you could use the lower and ream the lower hole on the C to accept the larger diameter taper and stud. But is getting to hard into this. I am thinking that the d44 and d60 upper is exactly the same in strength, the lower probably not so as the d60 is listed as being able to tow more so strength has to be more.

If anyone can disprove this then I will listen with an open mind.....76 those slots are looking real nice after some polishing, Thanks man....Mo

Dana 60s have a larger knuckle (and taller) and inner-C casting than do 44s, along with larger bearings. The ball joint is not where the strength issue lies with regards to weight-carrying capacity. The same ball joint farther away from the axle centerline will be stronger.

Again, there is really no gain in modifying the D44 to use different ball joints as they aren't the weight failure point regarding load capacity. When the axle is loaded, there is a downward force pushing the ball into the cup in the balljoint with a minor inward component force due to king-pin inclination (aka scrub radius).

The weight rating comes with the axle tubes, spindles and brakes. This is why a 3/4ton D44 is only different than a 1/2ton D44 insofar as brakes and wheel bearings. The weakness is still in the physical knuckle castings and axle tubes.

My experience with broken ball joints is that the uppers break sideways from too much turning force, a broken stub shaft and already loose ball joints. When that happens, the ball joint usually takes the knuckle out with it. It's rare to see them break from overloading. The axle tube will usually bend before the ball joint breaks in that kind of load.

So in short Mo, save your effort and use a Dana 44 ball joint. I'm running a D44 locked on 39s in a 4600lb GPW with 351, ZF and Dana 300 and haven't had one spit out the side from beating on it.

-And it's good to see those wheels have found a new home!

 

[bmc69]

My experience with broken ball joints is that the uppers break sideways from too much turning force, a broken stub shaft and already loose ball joints. When that happens, the ball joint usually takes the knuckle out with it. It's rare to see them break from overloading. The axle tube will usually bend before the ball joint breaks in that kind of load.

!

After so many years of wheeling my 408-powered beast with 39.5 IROKs, I can agree with all that. I've yet to break a ball joint. When I destroyed the outer knuckle casting, it was because of axle failure and when the broken parts passed by each other, one half carrying a Jantz joint, the other with the ears mostly gone, they 'made room' for each other to pass...and 'boom' went the knuckle.