How did he accomplish this?

[Yeller]

If anyone finds a full float 5x5-1/2 D60, I want to see it if possible. Can just about promise it is semi float. I've seen a few over the years, the earliest ones from the late 90's and early 2000's used a 14 bolt spindle and hub with screw in studs that screwed in from the front. I've seen 1 from that era that had custom machined hubs that fit a D60 spindle that was bored out and used a 14 bolt flange on the axle. Later, 03 or so we started seeing a few done with modified Ford Super Duty front unit bearings. About that time, we started seeing aftermarket D60 front hubs with 5x5-1/2 bolt pattern, the first I remember seeing was the despised Warn full float kit for a 9". I guess I'm saying a factory option has never existed. For what its worth, I started seeing explorer rear discs in use on other axles besides a Ford 8.8 in 1997 or 1998, not long after their introduction.

Also keep in mind in that era, there was a mindset that semi float made a stronger axle than a full float in a D60, which was true to a point. Up until Ford put RDB on the E250/E350 van with a D60, all full float D60's would only accept a 30 spline axle, same size as a D44, a semi float could be had in 35 spline, which is stronger until the bearing or axle flange give up. To the best of my knowledge, in a D60, the only factory rear offering that would accept a 35 spline axle was the E250/E350 with factory RDB, they still used a 30 spline axle, but could be upgraded without the heartburn that @ntsqd went through on his full size build.

I hope the history of all of this is at least entertaining, made me dig way back in the ol memory banks LOL.

bit more trivia LOL. D60 front axles have always been 35 spline that are open knuckle, there are some early exceptions that were closed knuckle. The odd thing, to me anyway, was the outer stub axles, they were all 30 spline, even though the spindles would accept a 35 spline axle. Why was that. Spicer also made a D70 front that was used in some special and industrial applications, those were 35 spline, only used a drive flange, but used the same hub, spindle and brakes as the D60. So those of us that went to D60 fronts very early used D70 axle shafts in our D60's. The catch was a Ford front needed a custom cut axle due to them being .600" shorter for the outer axle shaft.

 

[ntsqd]

Can rent the tool from Yukon to bore the D60 spindles. They consider the cutter to be a one housing use, so you could rent the tool and buy the cutter. Only I had the means to make the tool for less than their rental so I did. I like to think that I used a better cutter than their design uses, a Ø1.563" Hougen. The Yukon tool uses a shell mill instead.
I just looked it up, looks like they sell them now and don't rent them. Mine cost nothing close to that much to make, but it did take me a couple of days on the lathe and with the welder to build it.

Never seen a Dana built 5x5.5 FF D60, parts to do so, or any mention of such anywhere, only semi-floats. I guess it could be one of those Warn kits on a semi-float housing. MISF had one. Notice the past tense. His grenaded in traffic and when the drive axle let go it took out the Detroit too. The only current way that I've found to get a 5x5.5 FF D60 is to put 14BFF spindles on the D60 housing and use the Solid Axle Ind. 5x5.5 hubs. I'm starting down that path with the rear D60 for the Wagon. There may be a parallel path using front hubs, but that puts you into drive slugs and I didn't want to go there as I intend to run the rear wheel bearings in diff lube and sealing drive slugs in the past has been more problematic than it looks like it should be.
14BFF spindles also mean that you don't need to bore them because they already clear the D60 35 spline drive axles.

I tried to put an Explorer kit on an 8 lug FF D60 and it isn't reasonable to do. The wheel hub's OD around the inner seal wants to be in the same place as the parking brake parts. Can't machine the OD smaller as there isn't much there to start with, so spacing it inboard is the only option. To do that the spacer between the rotor and the wheel hub is going to 2" thick or more, and you'll have to move the mounting flange further in on the housing - which has it's own set of troubles.
Can put the Expedition RDB's (same as Explorer RDB only slightly bigger) on an 8 lug FF D60 and the caliper bracket will pilot correctly and bolt onto the drum brake backing plate mounting flange!

 

[jamesroney]

If anyone finds a full float 5x5-1/2 D60, I want to see it if possible. Can just about promise it is semi float. I've seen a few over the years, the earliest ones from the late 90's and early 2000's used a 14 bolt spindle and hub with screw in studs that screwed in from the front. I've seen 1 from that era that had custom machined hubs that fit a D60 spindle that was bored out and used a 14 bolt flange on the axle. Later, 03 or so we started seeing a few done with modified Ford Super Duty front unit bearings. About that time, we started seeing aftermarket D60 front hubs with 5x5-1/2 bolt pattern, the first I remember seeing was the despised Warn full float kit for a 9". I guess I'm saying a factory option has never existed. For what its worth, I started seeing explorer rear discs in use on other axles besides a Ford 8.8 in 1997 or 1998, not long after their introduction.

Also keep in mind in that era, there was a mindset that semi float made a stronger axle than a full float in a D60, which was true to a point. Up until Ford put RDB on the E250/E350 van with a D60, all full float D60's would only accept a 30 spline axle, same size as a D44, a semi float could be had in 35 spline, which is stronger until the bearing or axle flange give up. To the best of my knowledge, in a D60, the only factory rear offering that would accept a 35 spline axle was the E250/E350 with factory RDB, they still used a 30 spline axle, but could be upgraded without the heartburn that @ntsqd went through on his full size build.

I hope the history of all of this is at least entertaining, made me dig way back in the ol memory banks LOL.

bit more trivia LOL. D60 front axles have always been 35 spline that are open knuckle, there are some early exceptions that were closed knuckle. The odd thing, to me anyway, was the outer stub axles, they were all 30 spline, even though the spindles would accept a 35 spline axle. Why was that. Spicer also made a D70 front that was used in some special and industrial applications, those were 35 spline, only used a drive flange, but used the same hub, spindle and brakes as the D60. So those of us that went to D60 fronts very early used D70 axle shafts in our D60's. The catch was a Ford front needed a custom cut axle due to them being .600" shorter for the outer axle shaft.

OK, but remember..."you asked..."

First things first. If anyone finds a full float 5x5.5 D60? Are you looking for factory dana spicer, or aftermarket? You will not find a factory full float Dana 60 because the drive axle flange pattern is 8 on 4 inch, with a 4-5/8 outer flange diameter. a 5.5 wheel needs a 4.25 center hole, and can go as big as 4.5 but can never go to 4-5/8. In order to bolt a 5 lug wheel on a full float hub, you need an axle flange at 4.25. The GM 14 bolt axle shaft has a bolt circle of 3-5/8 vs the Ford at 4.00. You can machine a GM axle flange to 4.25 and the wheel will go over it.

Nobody at Spicer ever thought semi float was stronger than a full float. That's kind of silly. Dana Spicer speaks in terms of weight carrying capacity, and sustained torque. The Dana 60 in the 1970's F250 had a capacity of 6200 lbs. The Dana 60 with Semi Float axles in 1986 was a 35 spline 5200 lb axle. Now you might argue that the 35 spline semi float could handle more torque than the 30 spline full float...but you would be in disagreement with Spicer, who rates the full float 30 spline Dana 60 at...6,000 lb-ft instantaneous, and 1500 lb-ft continuous. The 35 spline semi-float only gets 5,500 lb-ft and 1500 continuous.

Dana 60 front axle shafts are designed to complement each other. The inner shaft sees up to 60% more torque than the outer stub due to u-joint inefficiency. You can imagine if you steered the wheels to 90 degrees, you would transfer zero torque. At 45 degrees, it's vastly reduced. Straight ahead, it's 100% efficient. So the stub are smaller because they meet the design criteria.

There is the legend of the unicorn Dana 60 Full float with big bore, but the Dana 61 housings are big bore and require no machining. I pressed a set of D61 tubes in my high pinion to run the 1.5 shafts. Way more work and stupid. The flanged axle semi float is a better choice in a vehicle that carries no weight.

As far as the ad for the Blue Bronco...the picture shows a semi-float flanged axle. So he is running a 60 with 9 inch big bearing outers, and explorer brakes. I build mine that way. No serious person runs a 9 inch in a dual purpose Bronco. The only viable traction adding device is the full case detroit or a spool. The dana 60 resolves that problem. I haven't built a Bronco with a 9 inch for myself in years.

Gotta run...

 

[ntsqd]

I stumbled onto the original post and found this picture:

I'd say its a Ranger OD for sure. Moving the notoriously far under the dash NP435 shifter back ~7.5 inches does wonders for it.

 

[jamesroney]

its a Ranger OD for sure. Moving the notoriously far under the dash NP435 shifter back ~7.5 inches does wonders for it.

Yeah, that Ranger Gear Splitter shift handle near the gas pedal, the 435 stick not in the heater, and the transfer case shifter in the back seat is dead giveaway.

Question for you: When you killed your Gear Vendor, were you running the GV electronic brain, or were you using the first generation with the "dimmer switch" control. It's my understanding that if you try to back up with overdrive enabled, it is a self destruct sequence. If you try to reverse while in direct, it takes a tiny bit more effort and they slip before they cook and expire. Pretty sure that's why there's a micro-controller now.

 

[Yeller]

OK, but remember..."you asked..."

First things first. If anyone finds a full float 5x5.5 D60? Are you looking for factory dana spicer, or aftermarket? You will not find a factory full float Dana 60 because the drive axle flange pattern is 8 on 4 inch, with a 4-5/8 outer flange diameter. a 5.5 wheel needs a 4.25 center hole, and can go as big as 4.5 but can never go to 4-5/8. In order to bolt a 5 lug wheel on a full float hub, you need an axle flange at 4.25. The GM 14 bolt axle shaft has a bolt circle of 3-5/8 vs the Ford at 4.00. You can machine a GM axle flange to 4.25 and the wheel will go over it.

Nobody at Spicer ever thought semi float was stronger than a full float. That's kind of silly. Dana Spicer speaks in terms of weight carrying capacity, and sustained torque. The Dana 60 in the 1970's F250 had a capacity of 6200 lbs. The Dana 60 with Semi Float axles in 1986 was a 35 spline 5200 lb axle. Now you might argue that the 35 spline semi float could handle more torque than the 30 spline full float...but you would be in disagreement with Spicer, who rates the full float 30 spline Dana 60 at...6,000 lb-ft instantaneous, and 1500 lb-ft continuous. The 35 spline semi-float only gets 5,500 lb-ft and 1500 continuous.

Dana 60 front axle shafts are designed to complement each other. The inner shaft sees up to 60% more torque than the outer stub due to u-joint inefficiency. You can imagine if you steered the wheels to 90 degrees, you would transfer zero torque. At 45 degrees, it's vastly reduced. Straight ahead, it's 100% efficient. So the stub are smaller because they meet the design criteria.

There is the legend of the unicorn Dana 60 Full float with big bore, but the Dana 61 housings are big bore and require no machining. I pressed a set of D61 tubes in my high pinion to run the 1.5 shafts. Way more work and stupid. The flanged axle semi float is a better choice in a vehicle that carries no weight.

As far as the ad for the Blue Bronco...the picture shows a semi-float flanged axle. So he is running a 60 with 9 inch big bearing outers, and explorer brakes. I build mine that way. No serious person runs a 9 inch in a dual purpose Bronco. The only viable traction adding device is the full case detroit or a spool. The dana 60 resolves that problem. I haven't built a Bronco with a 9 inch for myself in years.

Gotta run...

Ok @jamesroney let me clarify, and yes, I did ask

Yes I was in reference to a factory 5x5.5. I think we are on the same waive length on hub diameter and axle flange sizes. of the 2 variations a 14 bolt is attainable, a D60 rear is not in its as presented design.

You are 100% correct, no one at Spicer thought a semi float was stronger, it was a misconception of the rednecks trying to build stronger stuff, all excited going to a FF D60 and still breaking axles, many of those guys went back to semi float and stopped breaking axles with a 35 spline axle. Yes the concept of it being stronger was silly and misguided. If they had gone to a 14 bolt, the misconception would have never happened, but they were chasing ground clearance, most considered the 14 bolt a literal anchor and wouldn't consider it being viable. This was also during the time with 35's were huge and if you were running a 39.5" super swamper you were one crazy animal, this was the crowd I found myself hanging around and we weren't at the local sippy hole flinging slop, we were in the rocks breaking stuff like slow kids breaking steel balls in a sand box with a rubber hammer LOL. When I went to a 14 bolt they all said I was a dumb kid and going to break axles, and drag around a shovel, so we had this same discussion, they didn't buy it, I had to prove them wrong.....

Thank you for the addition of a big bore D60, was not aware of that with the D61.

As always appreciate your input, clarification, and detailed information that you provide. I hope you are enjoying your retirement as much as I enjoy reading your posts. I take that back, I hope you are enjoying it more!

 

[ntsqd]

Yeah, that Ranger Gear Splitter shift handle near the gas pedal, the 435 stick not in the heater, and the transfer case shifter in the back seat is dead giveaway.

Question for you: When you killed your Gear Vendor, were you running the GV electronic brain, or were you using the first generation with the "dimmer switch" control. It's my understanding that if you try to back up with overdrive enabled, it is a self destruct sequence. If you try to reverse while in direct, it takes a tiny bit more effort and they slip before they cook and expire. Pretty sure that's why there's a micro-controller now.

The controller had two switches, one for system power and another actually turn the OD on and off (when the controller's own conditions were met). I don't recall if the power switch to the controller was on or not - it likely was but I can't say for sure, but I never drove with OD enabled, I switched it on and off as I wanted/needed it (long, flat stretch of highway = compound OD, or some form of grade where I used the GV-OD to split the 47RE's OD and it's Direct). Running compound was kind of silly and useless, it usually pulled the engine into boost fueling, but being able to split between the OD and Direct was huge. Now I just slow down and grind up the hill in Direct.