New EB threw me some unexptected surprises

[fromme]

I bought this Bronco:
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147485

Drove down to NC and he accepted my offer. It is a very solid truck, but still I knew a couple things would need attention. It is old after all. The big things I noticed were the front pinion yoke was very loose, and the timing was so far off it was detonating terribly from 3,000 rpm and on, and it wouldn't idle well at all.
I've enjoyed it and it was easy to fix the idle, just clean up some stuff (IAC, MAF etc.). I pulled the front cover and there about 10 broken teeth on the ring gear and all the bearings are shot. The differential moves side to side and the pinion in and out. There's about 10 different patterns on the ring gear. %) So somebody knew it was broke.
The timing was set at 36 degrees with spout out! No wonder it detonates. Problem is, the damage was already done and a head gasket was shot. I don't know if he didn't know how to set timing and damaged this, or if it was damaged and he advanced the timing so far to keep it running half way decent.
So it threw me for a few unexpected loops, hopefully after I get this back together I can enjoy it for a bit. I guess you just never know, hard to know about things you can't see that are internal. I'll get it fixed up. At least the original builder of this thing did a very clean install!

 

[sprdv1]

Good luck... You'll be alright. And congrats on the rig

 

[Mac2Night]

Nice looking rig...... dumb question though, are the photos of the valves showing that the valves are burnt? I am about to pull my heads for what I think is a burnt valve and want to know how to tell (visually) if the valves in question are indeed burnt.

 

[W650Mike]

Ahhh…the joys of older vehicles… I’ll eventually work my way through each issue on my truck and so will you.

I’m the fourth owner of my ’73 in 2½ years. It didn’t take too ling to find out why. Lots of good parts, decent spec sheet, but lots and lots of parts and systems not working in harmony (to put it mildly). I tackled the safety issues of steering, brakes, lights, etc. first and now I’m working my way through each area that needs attention to make it a reliable driver. I periodically take a break from the mechanical to reward and encourage myself with a little cosmetic spit and polish. CB.com has been tremendously helpful in mechanical, cosmetic, and encouragement.

Nice looking rig. When you’re done, you’ll know exactly what you have.

 

[fromme]

Nice looking rig...... dumb question though, are the photos of the valves showing that the valves are burnt? I am about to pull my heads for what I think is a burnt valve and want to know how to tell (visually) if the valves in question are indeed burnt.

Actually the valves are in pretty good shape. The photo is showing the one cylinder is all wet adn gummy because of the coolant intrusion into the cylinder. The head gasket material still left on the block shows this too. Really to tell if the valves are burnt, you have check where they seat to the head. Good luck, hope yours turns out better. Before I started pulling off heads to check for a bad valve, I think I'd do a compression and leak down tests first though.

 

[av bronco]

You got a good platform to start with, fi roller is a huge upgrade on these things. good valve job and head surfice and your good to go.

 

[fromme]

I hope I don't regret this, but I just cleaned everything up nice and am going to hope just replacing the head gaskets works. Everything looks pretty good and the heads surface checked out straight. I just wish I had some 1.7 roller rockers to bolt on there while it's all apart. Oh well maybe later. I promised the wife I would only fix and not upgrade for a while.

 

[av bronco]

You got a good platform to start with, fi roller is a huge upgrade on these things. good valve job and head surfice and your good to go, might want to change the O2 sensors after pumping coolant by them tho.(oops, double post)

 

[Mac2Night]

fromme,

I did already do a compression test and cyls 1-7 were in the 125-130 psi range except but #8 was at 0 psi (checked it 4 times with leak down) each time checked. Leads me to think it is a valve issue (rocker arm stud pulled up 1/4 inch and shimmed, so it may be the cause instead). Planning a head job (no jokes here) and new gaskets, which should take care of the problem.

Actually the valves are in pretty good shape. The photo is showing the one cylinder is all wet adn gummy because of the coolant intrusion into the cylinder. The head gasket material still left on the block shows this too. Really to tell if the valves are burnt, you have check where they seat to the head. Good luck, hope yours turns out better. Before I started pulling off heads to check for a bad valve, I think I'd do a compression and leak down tests first though.

 

[fromme]

Man, that sucks. Obviously screwing the rocker stud out 1/4" is a huge red flag. Hard to say what the cause is over the internet. Could be bad lifter too.

I got mine all back together and it appears that things are a-ok now. Runs so much better now. No cooling system overpressure or backfiring, popping and I am able to set the base timing at 12 degrees and put the spout back in and all is well.

Now to get that front axle rebuilt and I can wheel it.

 

[fromme]

I'm going to continue my rant over this rig just because it might make me feel better. Don't get me wrong I do love it, but at times it is hard to like. I've had it a couple months now and I've found so many unforeseen issues. Let's see:
-Replaced head gaskets
-Fought with backfiring/missing issues and ended up replacing the engine harness with one from RJM. The OE 92 Mustang harness was a hack job, and in addition one of the O2 connectors had layed on the header and melted. A simple freakin zip tie would have prevented this. WTF!
-Rebuilt the whole front D44 axle, it was packed with mud, water and rust and had several broken teeth on the ring gear.
-Unwired the hack job on the Centech body harness and rewired it correctly
-Added a glove box insert and attached the fuse panel to it like it should be instead of flopping around behind the dash.
-Redid the plumbing nightmare on the heater hoses that were leaking. I should have taken a picture of the many brass fittings and elbows someone used. They need to banned from the plumbing isle in Lowe's.
-Fixed the barely working brakes and added a power booster set up.
-Redid the shitty exhaust.
-Plugged all the holes in teh firewall and floorpan with grommets

There's a ton more things, but like said, at least I had a halfway decent platform to start with. At least now I can call it mine and it is living up to what it should be with what's been done to it. I think the original builder probably did a good job (he's on this forum) but it went through 2 other owners and they jacked it up. If only they had a soldering iron a wiring schematic, and some zip ties, half the stuff wouldn't be so bad!

 

[Pa PITT]

When you replaced the head gaskets did you go in and replace the valve stem seals..I would have thought ..THE valve stem seals would have been the problems over the head gasket ...Of course with 0 pressure then your probley on the correct track but I'D at least go back and put seals on that one cylinder.

 

[fromme]

I don't understand what you're saying. I didn't have valve stem seal or oil problems.

 

[d.c.parris]

fromme,

I did already do a compression test and cyls 1-7 were in the 125-130 psi range except but #8 was at 0 psi (checked it 4 times with leak down) each time checked. Leads me to think it is a valve issue (rocker arm stud pulled up 1/4 inch and shimmed, so it may be the cause instead). Planning a head job (no jokes here) and new gaskets, which should take care of the problem.

Mac. paw has rebuilt heads for the 302 for 400.00 pair with new valves guides and seals. pawinc.com I pour gas into the ports with the heads off if you have leaking valves it will run out. do the exaust then turn the head over and do the intakes this is the oldtimers method

 

[Bronco Biff]

I don't understand what you're saying. I didn't have valve stem seal or oil problems.

I think Mac2night's comment were confused in here........Anywho, keep up the good work!! Have you hooked up with the Tidewater Bronco's crew?

 

[Mac2Night]

Yeah, PAPITT got my comments mixed up with Fromme's original issues in his post. Sorry for helping cause the confusion! ;D

I think Mac2night's comment were confused in here........Anywho, keep up the good work!! Have you hooked up with the Tidewater Bronco's crew?

 

[fromme]

No problem, I see what he was referring to now. I've been driving this thing around all day yesterday and today, put about 200 miles on it, and it's running awesome. Think I finally got it licked. I really like that RJM harness. Now I just have small things to get to with tidying things up, but they can wait until it warms up outside. Going to do some trail riding this weekend at GWNF.

I have contacted Tidewater Broncos. I guess things are slow since it's wintertime, haven't heard much from them. I'm sure there will some things later in the year.

 

[fromme]

Pics of my junk and work:

Sorry they're dark, should have backed it out of the garage.

I rewarded myself with a little bling and got a new steering wheel from Tom's. I actually like to original one, but my fat but has a hard time getting in and out with that gargantuan wheel in there. This makes it easier.

While I had the upper intake off, I decided to go ahead and throw an Exploder intake on it with a 65mm TB. Guess I should get a bigger mass air meter, but that's gonna have to wait a while. Need to get a cage in it.

 

[Bronco QB]

fromme, knowing what you know now, are there pre-purchase tests that you coulda run on this rig that you woulda insisted on? E.G., compression, or the various tests they do to detect hyrocarbons in the coolant or maybe a vacuum test? I'm running into resistance from sellers...in lieu of a compression test, is there one quick test that doesn't have to be done in a shop that you would recommend?

 

[fromme]

fromme, knowing what you know now, are there pre-purchase tests that you coulda run on this rig that you woulda insisted on? E.G., compression, or the various tests they do to detect hyrocarbons in the coolant or maybe a vacuum test? I'm running into resistance from sellers...in lieu of a compression test, is there one quick test that doesn't have to be done in a shop that you would recommend?

Well to you answer your questions candidly, most of the problems exhibited themselves when I bought it. So I did know there were problems I would need to attend to. What caught me off guard was the extent of the issues. For example I knew the front pinion yoke was loose, and knew something was amiss. I assumed too much and thought I'd just need to replace the pinion bearings and nut. What I should have done was popped off the cover. If I'd have done that I would have seen the diff packed full of mud and water, the broken ring gear, and the rust inside. Time and excitement got the better of me there.
The head gasket didn't exhibit any visual signs at the time. It was not overpressuring the cooling system and running pretty well. A compression check probably wouldn't have revealed a problem because it was a very minor leak at the head gasket. Except for the horrible detonation (Spark knock) I was hearing. Again I assumed it was just the timing set incorrectly. What I should have done was brought my timing light and I could have seen just how far advanced it was. Then I'd have known there was a good chance something was broken. As for the coolant, there are testers you can buy to check for exhaust in the coolant, I should have brought one of those too. That would have told me all I needed to know.
The electrical work I also saw to be done incorrectly. On a 5.0, the fuel pump primes when the key is turned to on for a few seconds and it shuts off until you start it. This fuel pump kept running. So again, I knew I'd have to work on it, but what I couldn't see was the hack job behind the dash and all.
Sorry for the long winded reply. In the end, the "surprises" were that the issues were far worse than I expected. If I could go back in time, I'd still have bought the truck. I was smart enough to at least identify the problems and I made an offer accordingly. Now that I'm done with it, I love this thing, and I do feel that what money I have in it is very reasonable. My postings were more of a rant to let off steam, I'm very happy with the Bronco...now.
I drove 6 hours to go look at this Bronco. I had the choice of leaving with an empty trailer, or taking the Bronco with its flaws. It kind of pushed me to make the offer, and it kind of pushed him to accept. So if I ever do it again, I'll bring my timing light, a test for the coolant, and I will be more demanding that I check suspect things such as pulling a diff cover, and I will plan for the worst if I do see something needs repaired or replaced instead of thinking it's minor. And then make an offer accordingly. Does that help?