1974 Drivability issues (pass#2) - - {NEED HELP}

[Luckie1127]

What did the alignment shop say?

Unfortunately the alignment shop didn't have any insight as to next steps once they got the the data I shared in image 2 on the thread. Not much help at all.

 

[awest5321]

Unfortunately the alignment shop didn't have any insight as to next steps once they got the the data I shared in image 2 on the thread. Not much help at all.

Did anyone mention checking steering box bolts and frame condition under the box? Cracks in this area and near the track arm frame mount point. Very hard to see but very dangerous if overlooked.

 

[awest5321]

Egged out track bar bolt holes will make for a loose front end also. Always check mounting points when installing new track bar bushings.

 

[Brush Hog]

Had similar issue after installing new 2.5 inch lift. Did the following in order and got incremental improvements in handling each time.

1) New track bar drag link and steering box. Made sure everything was tight and no frame damage. 2) Added new tires. Had professional alignment and toe adjusted. 3) Added 7degree c bushings because needed more caster. 4) Added drop pitman arm and track bar drop bracket. 5) Noticed I had lots of tie rod roll at the ball joints so i clocked (not sure correct term) the tie rod ends in ball joints (turned one back as far as possible and the other forward as possible) to lock them in place made a big improvement. 6) Then last thing was adding front anti sway bar and that finally got it about perfect.

There wasn’t one thing that “fixed” my steering issue but each adjustment/upgrade got me closer. All of it was tidbits gleaned from this forum that I pieced together.

 

[Luckie1127]

Had similar issue after installing new 2.5 inch lift. Did the following in order and got incremental improvements in handling each time.

1) New track bar drag link and steering box. Made sure everything was tight and no frame damage. 2) Added new tires. Had professional alignment and toe adjusted. 3) Added 7degree c bushings because needed more caster. 4) Added drop pitman arm and track bar drop bracket. 5) Noticed I had lots of tie rod roll at the ball joints so i clocked (not sure correct term) the tie rod ends in ball joints (turned one back as far as possible and the other forward as possible) to lock them in place made a big improvement. 6) Then last thing was adding front anti sway bar and that finally got it about perfect.

There wasn’t one thing that “fixed” my steering issue but each adjustment/upgrade got me closer. All of it was tidbits gleaned from this form that I pieced together.

BrushHog, this is extremely helpful to hear how you walked thru the process. I'll certainly walk thru this process on my end as well. Do not have a front anti sway bar but can move forward to that step. Greatly appreciate this note. Can you advise on which brand sway bar you installed?

 

[Fair Oaks Mustang]

Had similar issue after installing new 2.5 inch lift. Did the following in order and got incremental improvements in handling each time.

1) New track bar drag link and steering box. Made sure everything was tight and no frame damage. 2) Added new tires. Had professional alignment and toe adjusted. 3) Added 7degree c bushings because needed more caster. 4) Added drop pitman arm and track bar drop bracket. 5) Noticed I had lots of tie rod roll at the ball joints so i clocked (not sure correct term) the tie rod ends in ball joints (turned one back as far as possible and the other forward as possible) to lock them in place made a big improvement. 6) Then last thing was adding front anti sway bar and that finally got it about perfect.

There wasn’t one thing that “fixed” my steering issue but each adjustment/upgrade got me closer. All of it was tidbits gleaned from this form that I pieced together.

Second vote for front sway bar. Makes a massive difference.

 

[bronco italiano]

Unfortunately the alignment shop didn't have any insight as to next steps once they got the the data I shared in image 2 on the thread. Not much help at all.

Sadly most alignment shops don't understand old cars anymore. No way would I have allowed that bronco to leave my place driving the way you state.

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks for the link to the old discussion.
I thought we had talked about it, and there was in post 16 (I think), describing how to do the test.
It really is helpful to do that, as described, with the tires on the ground. It puts pressure on everything and will highlight anything that’s loose or out of spec for play.
Most Broncos have slightly wonky Steering, but from your description there’s definitely something else going on with yours.

 

[Luckie1127]

Thanks for the link to the old discussion.
I thought we had talked about it, and there was in post 16 (I think), describing how to do the test.
It really is helpful to do that, as described, with the tires on the ground. It puts pressure on everything and will highlight anything that’s loose or out of spec for play.
Most Broncos have slightly wonky Steering, but from your description there’s definitely something else going on with yours.

I'll go back and do the test, and yes sir, something wonky going on with it. thanks for the help

 

[mrdrnac]

I agree with the other Gentlemen, I think you need more toe-in.

 

[DirtDonk]

Sounds good. If you don’t have a helper handy to turn the wheel, maybe a camera phone set to video. Or, if you’re equipped with a GoPro or similar, that would work really good.

 

[m_m70]

Added drop pitman arm and track bar drop bracket

this^^ and add more toe.

 

[pfdff1115]

That doesn't look like enough caster to me. I'm sure someone smarter than me will chime in on that.

i agree ^^^

 

[spap]

How old are he tires, if it wasn’t mentioned

 

[Bajabrewer]

I'm running 33X10.5X15 BFG & they like about 45 PSI - I drove them with 28 PSI & the Bronco wandered all over the place - what I'm saying is try different PSI to find what your Bronco likes. I "borrowed" this from a different forum - explanation of chalking tires to help find the right pressure for your Bronco - Hope it helps

This subject has come up several times over the past few years and like most subjects here the answers vary a great deal. I was taught this procedure years ago by an engineer that worked in the tire industry and also told how to do it by several others involved in both 4X4 and street rods including people at BFG.

It is called "Chalking"

Get yourself a piece of chalk, kid's sidewalk chalk works well.

Go to a nice flat and level parking lot.

Rub the chalk across the tread blocks of the tire covering them complete from side to side. Do it on both front and rear tires.

Drive the rig 100' or so across the parking lot and check the pattern of the chalk left on the tire.

Worn completely off in the center and scuffer toward the edges-too much pressure

Worn completely on the edges and scuffed in the center- not enough pressure.

Repeat and adjust pressure until all the chalk is worn off the tire even.

I run 285/70/17 BFG KM2s and 43lbs cold is right on the mark.

 

[Luckie1127]

How old are he tires, if it wasn’t mentioned

Tires are 6 months old

 

[Luckie1127]

I'm running 33X10.5X15 BFG & they like about 45 PSI - I drove them with 28 PSI & the Bronco wandered all over the place - what I'm saying is try different PSI to find what your Bronco likes. I "borrowed" this from a different forum - explanation of chalking tires to help find the right pressure for your Bronco - Hope it helps

This subject has come up several times over the past few years and like most subjects here the answers vary a great deal. I was taught this procedure years ago by an engineer that worked in the tire industry and also told how to do it by several others involved in both 4X4 and street rods including people at BFG.

It is called "Chalking"

Get yourself a piece of chalk, kid's sidewalk chalk works well.

Go to a nice flat and level parking lot.

Rub the chalk across the tread blocks of the tire covering them complete from side to side. Do it on both front and rear tires.

Drive the rig 100' or so across the parking lot and check the pattern of the chalk left on the tire.

Worn completely off in the center and scuffer toward the edges-too much pressure

Worn completely on the edges and scuffed in the center- not enough pressure.

Repeat and adjust pressure until all the chalk is worn off the tire even.

I run 285/70/17 BFG KM2s and 43lbs cold is right on the mark.

Thanks for the tip, will try that this weekend also.

 

[Yeller]

I agree that it needs more caster but there is only so much you can do without cutting the C’s off (the part that the ball joints bolt to), repositioning for more caster and welding back, but it is enough it should be drivable without major work. Cutting C’s is major work and it takes the right shop to do the work, because if done incorrectly it will be terrible.

I would Add small amounts of toe until you get to 3/8”, between the 1/16” you have and 3/8” will be a sweet spot. As you have decided, play with air pressure.

From a physics standpoint a dropped pitman arm and dropped track at bracket will help as well, however it is not the best option, works but for overall drivability, flip the tie rod on top of the knuckle and do a track bar riser, that provides the best result, is a small amount more labor but the end results are better. If it was in my shop that would have been done for you if it drove like you are saying.

I personally don’t like how broncos drive with a sway bar. Some people say they are death traps without them, i personally find the restriction from the radius arms to be more than sufficient and the ride to be better. But if it makes you like how it drives by all means put one on there, if your adding to the front put the rear one one too, it does help to balance it out. Helwig is the only manufacturer that I am aware of that offers them complete, several of our bronco vendors supply them.

As for the bent rear housing, that would show up in the alignment specs, it shows thrust angle and camber for both sides, it looks decent, not enough to cause issue in my opinion. But as mentioned bushing condition is just as important for the rear springs as it is for the track bar. A worn spring bushing will make you crazy chasing issues that are not in the front end.

 

[73azbronco]

do you have 4x4x2 steering box? I'm finding while great for crawling, I think to sensitive for regular street use. Mine is absurdly sensitive.

I also use 1/2 to 3/4 as a rough toe in number. 5-6 deg for caster. Does not look like you have either.

Chalk test, meh, arguments both ways on that, I think best method is to use oem number, but that fails as we all go oversize tires. So then, my option is to use tire pressure chart based on weight on the tire. Lemons to oranges, they do the chalk test on wranglers and oem tires end up underinflated imo, i use the door sticker at 38psi, rides great, no noticeable wear issue, which i did have using chalk test. Remember your tire is not static, it bends and twists based on turns.

 

[don k]

I don't think it likes the tires. I had a friend years ago that had a new second generation Bronco. He put some big wide tires on it and it was scary to drive.