What engine/tranny?

I currently have a 302 with 3 on the tree and stock gearing and 33" AT's. I'm wanting OD and automatic with most usage for highway and light offroad. What would give me the best bang for my buck and resale value?

jasonmcc said:

I currently have a 302 with 3 on the tree and stock gearing and 33" AT's. I'm wanting OD and automatic with most usage for highway and light offroad. What would give me the best bang for my buck and resale value?

Click to expand...

Explorer EFI 302 with 4R70W

Installing the 4R70W on my 289 right now. Keep in mind you will need a controller and a new steering column. I went Baumann and Idit.

Same gears as stock manual 1 thru 3, OD is .67 which gets the highway RPMs down. I am not running 33s. Still running the stock 9” rear end.

Bummer....do you "have to" get a different column.

I read on a hot rod forum that Lokar has a kit to switch our linkage from oem to theirs which may accommodate an OD tranny,....i believe it's somewhat of a generic item.

You can use a floor shifter so you could keep the same column, would probably have to regear the diffs and the 4R has different gear ratios than stock(lower first) and a .70 overdrive which does make a difference over the .67 over drive from the AOD which is a much weaker transmission. One my first bronco I ran a c4 with 33 s and 3.50 gears and it did fine
Not good for hard core stuff but fine for light stuff

No real bang for the buck getting the 4r70w like 1.5k to 2k with rebuild, trans adapter 500 bucks, the controller 500 bucks, twin sticks for the j shift 150 bucks and brackets to move the transfer case mount back Try to find a low miles explorer with 4x4 and the cost go down quit a bit

spap said:

You can use a floor shifter so you could keep the same column, would probably have to regear the diffs and the 4R has different gear ratios than stock(lower first) and a .70 overdrive which does make a difference over the .67 over drive from the AOD which is a much weaker transmission. One my first bronco I ran a c4 with 33 s and 3.50 gears and it did fine
Not good for hard core stuff but fine for light stuff

No real bang for the buck getting the 4r70w like 1.5k to 2k with rebuild, trans adapter 500 bucks, the controller 500 bucks, twin sticks for the j shift 150 bucks and brackets to move the transfer case mount back Try to find a low miles explorer with 4x4 and the cost go down quit a bit

Click to expand...

I’m baffled by misinformation about transmissions. The AOD is not much weaker, it simply has flaws that the in stock form/application the 4R resolved and can easily be done to the AOD making it an exceptional transmission and with no extra expense for a shift controller. I personally like them both but for simplicity and the fact it has a deeper OD the AOD is my preferred choice because I can run lower gears and get excellent off and on road manners from it. Keep in mind all of the articles etc you read on the interwebs are 99% designed around 1/4 mile use. When you re-engineer the system you need to focus where 85% of your actual usage will be and build to that.

Simple, good bang for the buck, normal power levels.
Explorer 5.0 pushrod V8 with a 4R70W.

I will heavily contradict Cowboy above. The AOD was a POS. Any good rebuild of an AOD means robbing the parts bin of a 4R70W for the good stuff. The higher OD so you can run lower axle gears is a flawed logic. The "W" in the 4R70W is for a wide ratio gear set. The 1st gear is 2.84 instead of 2.4 in the AOD. And compared to the .70 OD to the .667 in the AOD. There is a lot more to be gained by having the lower 1st gear in the transmission and a touch less in the axles. Not to mention the improved bands, pistons, shafts, clutches, sprags, and all the other little stuff the AOD rebuilder would be putting in.

As for needing a controller mentioned by Cowboy, with the Explorer powertrain package it is already built into the engine computer. Only need a stand alone controller if doing a stand alone EFI or carburetor. So that would be a mute point.

And $1500-$2k to rebuild the transmission, that is what you spend on a built AOD. Not a stock 4R70W. There are a lot of people who just use the 4R70W as is. If you get a AWD/4WD version of the Explorer you throw away the single speed transfer case that comes with it and use a simple bolt on adaptor (typically called the ZF adaptor since the original application was to adapt the Bronco Dana 20 to a ZF 5-speeds full size transfer case bolt pattern).

The 4R70W also gets you a better torque convertor K-factor, and a selectable lockup convertor. The lockup convertor allows the torque convertor to be more efficient. The AOD is a bastard design that isn't selectable, if in OD it is locked no matter what and in 3rd there is a 40% slip factor. It was a design that was simplier in the control aspect of it, but was never used in any other transmission for good reason. Ford even threw away the design when they went tot he 4R70W.

Now the stinker. Axle gearing.
You state stock gearing, but there were different ratios available. The V8 usually got the 3.50 ratio or if you are lucky the 4.11 was the upgrade. Your 33" tires are already an overdrive above stock gearing. Without an overdrive it has been proven for decades that an early bronco loves 33" tires with 4.11 gearing. The 3.50 gears drive OK, but it feels low on power. To add an actual overdrive to this is going to turn into a gearing disaster. The Explorer isn't even a good reference point, it has smaller tires and a LOT less drag.

So what gears do you need? For a 33" tire and an EFI 5.0 I would put the gearing needs for 2000RPM at 60MPH. Since you typically won't find an exact ratio that gets you that, a touch more RPM will make it more fun and sellable (since you are looking at resale value). Also allows for larger tires in the future if you or the next owner desires. Off the top of my head, 4.88 gears would be good. 4.56 could also work but the 4.88 would be better and cost the same. And yes, 4.88 gears are good highway gears in a Bronco. So long as you have an overdrive and 33" tires. I have made thousands of miles of road trips with 4.88s.

This will make for a good highway driver, and it will go off-road great as well.

As for the column comment, that is if you want a column shifter. The 3-speed column is substantially different then the automatic column. May not appear to be so on the outside, but how all that shifter stuff works there is no comparison. The crude conversion is to leave the column shifter or just knock out the roll pin and remove the arm and leave the 3-speed collar. Put in a floor shifter. Better is to pull the column apart and change the collar for one without the hole in it. Since Ford used the same column design in other vehicles, you find one for an application that was originally a floor shift.
The Lokar universal column shifter linkage, that is for adapting a automatic column for one transmission (Bronco C4 for example) to a transmission that it wasn't intended to work with (4R70W for example).

I hope that cleared up a lot of confusion and mis-information.

Oh, want to know you existing gear ratio? Check the tech section under axles. There is a simple way with a piece of string and some tape, just have to be able to roll the vehicle 1 revolution of the tires. That way you are not dealing with spin 2 times but you have a limited slip or you didn't notice the other tire was spinning backwards, or any of the other common mistakes that happen when doing an on car ratio check.

a few options out there for ya, and the experts will all chime in

Got any pics of this mysterious bronco? lol

Yeah here ya go...

So confirmed by Bowsher,

The Lokar cable will allow us to use our stock automatic tranny column with the 4R70W.

A new tilt column would be nice but would be an additional expense during an expensive mod.

Thought folks considering this would like that fiscal reality,

One other advantage to the 4R70W is that during shifts, it unloads torque until the shift is made, then re-engages. Happens almost instantly and is why the shifts are so smooth, plus it adds longevity to the transmission. I swapped in Explorer EFI, but just rebuilt the C4. I REALLY wish I had done the 4R70W swap with it. Find a donor Explorer/Mountaineer and utilize EFIGuy for the harness and computer. The system is so much better than the throttle body FI setups that they shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same discussions.

Well with transmission ideals, opinions are rampant. The 4R is a great transmission and because I build every one that rolls out of my shop personally, I still like the AOD as well. Many get confused with fancy terminology of torque unload and not knowing what is going on inside the transmission, it is still slippage in the clutches, there is no magic cut off unless the transmission can control the engine to briefly cut power which is not what happens in the 4R. The 4R is more efficient at it as it is an electronically controlled unit so things do happen much faster vs mechanical valving but the idea that no slippage occurs is simply wrong. There are 2 parts sought after from the 4R for rebuilds but are not necessary today to build a very robust AOD that will hold up well. The first part is th OD drum, it was initially sought after because it allows for a .5” wider band giving more grip. The second was the planetary set to get the slightly wider ratio but the planetary only changed that. The ratio is a preference, the OD band and drum is simply moot with the newer frictions and larger servo pistons that are general changed in both transmissions on a performance rebuild. Another neat little fact is the AOD had a much stronger and initially sought after part of the machined low/reverse drum to replace the stamped steel one found in the 4R, and again today they are available from the aftermarket as a billet piece. Even in the 4R, as with most automatics, they are a soft gear in 1st and 2nd meaning they do not have direct drive or lock up and run on a slip factor within the torque converter, this is what makes the automatic work in all vehicles until the lock up is engaged. Yes the 4R has the ability to have lockup in drive and overdrive (as well as 2nd with an aftermarket controller I believe) whereas the AOD only has locked (direct drive) in overdrive alone and does not offer a soft gear option in 4th. Where it got its bad rap for this was on the drag circuit because in OD you are on the smallest drive connecting shaft internal to the transmission, the weakest gear set and smallest band. Ironically this is the same on most transmissions (including the 4R as it is still using many of the same internals as its older brother the AOD) simply due to packaging restraints and how the gear selection made through the planetary and drums. In OD they were known to break the intermediate shaft on a sudden hard acceleration in high horsepower applications. This problem was negated with the inclusion of electronic valve bodies by way of when they see a heavy acceleration they immediately unlock the torque converter and allow the transmission to slip vs the mechanical valve body having to have mechanical parameters met which takes a bit longer to happen. Most people in a bronco do not wheel in OD, or heavy tow, or drag race so they would most likely never experience that sort of failure to be honest. I have yet to do a build with AOD vs 4R that the 4R was any cheaper over the AOD though as others have mentioned if you are planning on running the explorer EFI then it already has the controller and that is beneficial in that form. From a builder standpoint we do not use the factory EFI because they no longer have factory support and it makes it a very costly avenue to offer a warranty on it vs. new aftermarket products with full support and warranty available. Both transmissions will require a complete tear down to change the tailshaft and add the adapter if running the Dana 20 transfercase. There is an alternative way to adapt if you have an awd or 4wd version of both transmissions but for the shortest driveline and to keep the rear drive shaft as long as possible, full tear down is necessary and if you are in either transmission that far you might as well replace all of the wearables. Again, bottom line is we have had excellent results in both transmissions, it comes down to your preference which goes back to my main statement of you need to figure out where and how you will be using your bronco 85% of the time and build to favor that.

Great info! 85% of the time I'll be on the highway

englewoodcowboy said:

Well with transmission ideals, opinions are rampant. The 4R is a great transmission and because I build every one that rolls out of my shop personally, I still like the AOD as well. Many get confused with fancy terminology of torque unload and not knowing what is going on inside the transmission, it is still slippage in the clutches, there is no magic cut off unless the transmission can control the engine to briefly cut power which is not what happens in the 4R. The 4R is more efficient at it as it is an electronically controlled unit so things do happen much faster vs mechanical valving but the idea that no slippage occurs is simply wrong. There are 2 parts sought after from the 4R for rebuilds but are not necessary today to build a very robust AOD that will hold up well. The first part is th OD drum, it was initially sought after because it allows for a .5” wider band giving more grip. The second was the planetary set to get the slightly wider ratio but the planetary only changed that. The ratio is a preference, the OD band and drum is simply moot with the newer frictions and larger servo pistons that are general changed in both transmissions on a performance rebuild. Another neat little fact is the AOD had a much stronger and initially sought after part of the machined low/reverse drum to replace the stamped steel one found in the 4R, and again today they are available from the aftermarket as a billet piece. Even in the 4R, as with most automatics, they are a soft gear in 1st and 2nd meaning they do not have direct drive or lock up and run on a slip factor within the torque converter, this is what makes the automatic work in all vehicles until the lock up is engaged. Yes the 4R has the ability to have lockup in drive and overdrive (as well as 2nd with an aftermarket controller I believe) whereas the AOD only has locked (direct drive) in overdrive alone and does not offer a soft gear option in 4th. Where it got its bad rap for this was on the drag circuit because in OD you are on the smallest drive connecting shaft internal to the transmission, the weakest gear set and smallest band. Ironically this is the same on most transmissions (including the 4R as it is still using many of the same internals as its older brother the AOD) simply due to packaging restraints and how the gear selection made through the planetary and drums. In OD they were known to break the intermediate shaft on a sudden hard acceleration in high horsepower applications. This problem was negated with the inclusion of electronic valve bodies by way of when they see a heavy acceleration they immediately unlock the torque converter and allow the transmission to slip vs the mechanical valve body having to have mechanical parameters met which takes a bit longer to happen. Most people in a bronco do not wheel in OD, or heavy tow, or drag race so they would most likely never experience that sort of failure to be honest. I have yet to do a build with AOD vs 4R that the 4R was any cheaper over the AOD though as others have mentioned if you are planning on running the explorer EFI then it already has the controller and that is beneficial in that form. From a builder standpoint we do not use the factory EFI because they no longer have factory support and it makes it a very costly avenue to offer a warranty on it vs. new aftermarket products with full support and warranty available. Both transmissions will require a complete tear down to change the tailshaft and add the adapter if running the Dana 20 transfercase. There is an alternative way to adapt if you have an awd or 4wd version of both transmissions but for the shortest driveline and to keep the rear drive shaft as long as possible, full tear down is necessary and if you are in either transmission that far you might as well replace all of the wearables. Again, bottom line is we have had excellent results in both transmissions, it comes down to your preference which goes back to my main statement of you need to figure out where and how you will be using your bronco 85% of the time and build to favor that.

Click to expand...

NV3550!
You've already got the manual shift stuff. The tranny switch is cheap.
This tranny belonged in the Bronco! It fits and works perfectly.
And if you're considering an AX15, the lower first gear of the NV3550 makes it the winner.

Is the 347ci stroker a cheaper or better alternative than a coyote or 351W?

I've been running a AOD for 15 years and no problems, but I don't beat on my Bronco. However, I did have the shop rebuild the internals with better clutches, servo, etc.. For my decision to go AOD, it was the simplicity and money factor...

jasonmcc said:

Is the 347ci stroker a cheaper or better alternative than a coyote or 351W?

Click to expand...

Cheaper than a Coyote.

Close to the same price or a bit higher than a 351W (depends on the builds of each).

Better is more a question of what you want from the engine, while the numbers may be higher will they make a difference the way you use the Bronco is the real question.

Well, it looks like I'm leaning towards the blueprint 306 bronco edition or their 347ci with a 4r70w. What's a fair labor only price on having motor and tranny installed?

blubuckaroo said:

NV3550!
You've already got the manual shift stuff. The tranny switch is cheap.
This tranny belonged in the Bronco! It fits and works perfectly.
And if you're considering an AX15, the lower first gear of the NV3550 makes it the winner.

Click to expand...

Yes, you tell em blu!

jasonmcc said:

Well, it looks like I'm leaning towards the blueprint 306 bronco edition or their 347ci with a 4r70w. What's a fair labor only price on having motor and tranny installed?

Click to expand...

Crossmember, exhaust, driveshaft modifications, shifter different. That adds a lot to the (labor) bill. Don't forget having to play around with an accessory drive since it will be a different balance. I would expect a couple thousand in labor, a lot of that being having to deal with the conversion process more then physical parts swapping. And there is the wiring of the trans.

Are you looking to drive it home, or just want someone to put the big parts in the chassis and you will deal with the stack of little problems at home on your own time?