Heim Joint Conversion

Has anybody ever went to Heim Joint conversion on there steering linkage ? Good , Bad . Or are they a great set-up ? Just looking for some input good or bad .

Assume you are talking about steering linkage?
Lots do.
Some people have problems with early wear and squeaking.
I personally prefer 1 ton TRE's on a street/trail rig and would save the heims for a trail only rig. If you use them be sure to use a tapered stud throught the knuckle taper.

Personally I dont think they are a good idea for a vehicle that see a lot of street driving they are not DOT legal so if you have inspections they could ding you on them. once you swap to them your pretty much stuck with them. Standard heims dont allow as much angle as tie rod ends.
But then again plenty of guys go to them although I think mostly because its the new thing to do.
Now if your running huge tires and rock crawling they may be the thing you need.

This is a loaded question....and there is no correct answer. About half of the people on this board prefer heim and about half prefer tie rod ends...search and read is your best bet.

I went with the Heim setup Tom's sells, threw it on top of the knuckles at the same time and love it! I'm street/ trail and it behaves very well. I had to replace my stock stuff anyway as it was worn out. Just got through my RECON (vehicle reconstruction) inspection this afternoon out here in Hawaii and the guy (both as I had to go back and got diff inspector) didn't say a word about it. I guess he was too busy checking out all the other mods... I will say that I never even researched the 1 ton TRE and it would have been a consideration at the time if it's cost effective.

bronko69er said:

Assume you are talking about steering linkage?
Lots do.
Some people have problems with early wear and squeaking.
I personally prefer 1 ton TRE's on a street/trail rig and would save the heims for a trail only rig. If you use them be sure to use a tapered stud throught the knuckle taper.

Click to expand...

Can you give a little more info on the 1 ton TRE's? Is this something to pull from the yard, order from a parts house, what? I am in the market. Thanks

I'm in the market to do something , I just did the 79 knuckle out disc brake conversion . And I either need to go with F150 tie rods with a bushing , or bushing and stock tie rods or heim joint ???. I started pricing around the parts and I can do either set-up for around $200.00 . I just was wondering how well a Heim joint would hold up to mother nature ? I live in the northeast and it's wet and muddy it seem like all the time .

I sale the F-150 and the heim. The heim lasts mucher longer for me and I run them on all my EBs. Two have been inspected here in TX, one inspector looked the heims over and had me turn the wheel back and forth to see if they were loose and passed them so it's not like he missed them.

Oh and another bonus to TRE's, sourcing them in case of breakage or repair is much easier as most parts stores will have them in stock. You will need to find some one with a ream to ream the knuckles and pitman arm. Here is a good TRE kit. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Steering-Kit-Chevy-Tie-Rod-Ends_p_1338.html

I went to that link but couldn't find anything about Heims. I went kind of fast so may have missed it. It seems they are looking for the cause of accidents, not to see if the parts are stock. I am told that they do not have to be DOT approved. But if they did the DOT approval would be for the stock, installed by the manufacture parts so the f-150 or chevy parts would not be any more legal than heims. Being that I sell heims I am always on the lookout for this stuff but as yet have not seen even one ticket for running heims on the streets. That doesn't mean someone hasn't gotten one yet. And if they have I would like to see it. Also before I started making heim steering I spent 8 hrs on the phone with DOT trying to get them to commit one way or the other. Finally at the end of the day a lawyer got on the phone and told me that they do test and approve aftermarket parts but I would have to pay for the testing. They mostly deal with new autos and motorhomes. A while back TS typed that he thought CA would get around to checking steering but I don't think that has happened yet and may never. Maybe TS can share his info again?
PS it is easier to buy a stock tierod but I have never seen one that had a sudden failure either SRE or TRE. I could say that I have seen many more bad TRE than I have SRE but I have seen many more good TRE than SRE also.

I have the heims, I live in CA, and they are (imop) on the street about 1000 times better then tre. and on the trail, well, I havent seen a serious off road race rig without hiems since about 1980. my hiems are as tite as the day I installed them and the steering feel is way better then tre.

I run SRE's. My rig passes inspection every year. Both inspectors in NY say as long as it's tight and safe it's fine. They also said it's up to the inspector to decide what "tight and safe" is. Spray them with WD40 once in a while and you're good to go.

Wow ! Never thought I would see that kind of response out of a question about tie rod ends & heim joints . This is all great stuff I really never even thought about state inspection . I guess I need to call the DMV to see what are laws are .

>>>> the main issue I see for long term use(<under fairly normal conditions) with the Spherical Rod Ends(nicknamed "heim joints" because of inventor Lewis Heims, former owner of the Heim Bearing Company) vs. the OEM style tapered ball Tie Rod Ends is that the SRE/heim type of joint has no seals & the ones supposedly strong enough(<in that size) for steering linkages that everybodys using are non-greasable.... I have seen some seals & boots available for the SRE's,but nobody seems to use them>http://www.sealsit.com/rodend.asp....http://www.sealsit.com/rodendboots.asp ...... for those claiming SRE's aren't DOT legal , where is it exactly did Ya'll see this specific regulation on the type of ball & socket joints that are acceptable or are ya'll just regurgitating hear say from others..... following link is all I could find on DOT steering system regulations>>http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...y=0901633480023967&keyword=hydraulic+steering .... it's just saying that universal joints & ball-and-socket joints shall not be worn, faulty or repaired by welding .... if anyone has found the DOT regulation/law against a specific type of ball& socket joint please post it........ as far as safety , a "heim" type joint with a retaining washer may actually be safer 'cause when a OEM type TRE comes apart there is nothing holding it in place when the ball comes out of the socket.......

I think safety is important to everyone on here, I know it is to me. If you think DOT means it is safer only use DOT approved parts. That means as installed stock only. No putting Chevy stuff on a EB Not even disc brakes because DOT approval only applies to parts installed on the modal it was tested on by DOT. Also only the 76-77 can have power brakes. I'm thinking somethings are safer even if they are not DOT approved.

76 bronco J said:

>>>> the main issue I see for long term use(<under fairly normal conditions) with the Spherical Rod Ends(nicknamed "heim joints" because of inventor Lewis Heims, former owner of the Heim Bearing Company) vs. the OEM style tapered ball Tie Rod Ends is that the SRE/heim type of joint has no seals & the ones supposedly strong enough(<in that size) for steering linkages that everybodys using are non-greasable.... I have seen some seals & boots available for the SRE's,but nobody seems to use them>http://www.sealsit.com/rodend.asp....http://www.sealsit.com/rodendboots.asp ...... for those claiming SRE's aren't DOT legal , where is it exactly did Ya'll see this specific regulation on the type of ball & socket joints that are acceptable or are ya'll just regurgitating hear say from others..... following link is all I could find on DOT steering system regulations>>http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...y=0901633480023967&keyword=hydraulic+steering .... it's just saying that universal joints & ball-and-socket joints shall not be worn, faulty or repaired by welding .... if anyone has found the DOT regulation/law against a specific type of ball& socket joint please post it........ as far as safety , a "heim" type joint with a retaining washer may actually be safer 'cause when a OEM type TRE comes apart there is nothing holding it in place when the ball comes out of the socket.......

Click to expand...

>>> I'm still waiting for somebody to post the specific DOT regulation/(FMVSS)Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard regarding what specific type of steering system linkage components are legal or not legal ......... I don't own or sell a SRE/"heim" steering system & probably never will so I have nothing to gain except getting people to quit making statements about the illegality of something without definitive proof .......................... here's a link to the FMVSS standards which makes no mention of a specific type of steering linkage requirement http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/ .....................the following DOT/government site has some Frequently Asked Questions http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ Site/pages/page2.html#Anchor-19914 .. the very first question is "Is there a need for DOT Approval?"...... the answer is NO... they don't approve vehicles or equipment parts , all they do set FMVSS standards to adhere by....it's the manufactures reponsibilty to make sure they meet all FMVSS that are current on the date of manufacture................. next link is to a steering system seller,they make a good point about trying to find steering system parts with a DOT approval/certification on them & seem to be correct according to the DOT's website http://bulletproofsteering.com/statelaws.html >> ........................next link is to a discussion over the legality or illegality of full hydro steering http://www.roninwheelers.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1518 ........ first post in that thread says what I found in my previous post> This is word for word the federal dot rules regarding the steering system
................(d) Steering system. Universal joints and ball-and-socket joints shall not be worn, faulty or repaired by welding. The steering gear box shall not have loose or missing mounting bolts or cracks in the gear box or mounting brackets. The pitman arm on the steering gear output shaft shall not be loose. Steering wheels shall turn freely through the limit of travel in both directions.
................(e) Power steering systems. All components of the power system must be in operating condition. No parts shall be loose or broken. Belts shall not be frayed, cracked or slipping. The system shall not leak. The power steering system shall have sufficient fluid in the reservoir.
.....................here's some good qoutes from that thread >>"Guys, I spent hours on the phone with the U.S. D.O.T. in Washington D.C. and finally ended up talking to someone in Accident Avoidance Division. He informed me that to date and I quote,"No safety standards have been issued regarding steering systems."
"The gentleman at DOT also informed me that the DOT does in NO WAY approve any product! They merely issue safety standards and any manufacturer producing items that fall under these standards must comply with said standard. If you read that something is "DOT Approved" it is usually the manufacturers inference that his product meets the DOT standards and NOT DOT's "Approval" ........"As for the pissing match that started this... the guy chanting "it's illegal" can go stand in the corner and chant till he turns blue. If he comes up with a copy of the law, or even a reference to the law, I might pay attention to him. But since I've looked for the same, I'm pretty comfy in reminding him that he should research his mantra before chanting it in public and making himself look foolish. The guy standing over there chanting "beadlocks are illegal" will keep him nice company" .............................................................................................................................................. >>>>>>>>>>>that's all my research for NOW, once again let me say my only intentions are to find a correct proof positive answer on the subject instead of all this hear say & I don't use or sell a SRE/"heim" joint steering system.... also since that full-hydro steering thread brought it up, please post the DOT/FMVSS regulation on beadlocks after you post the regulation/law regarding the specific type of steering system linkage components that are allowable....

>>> I see l'il buckarooski decided to delete 2 of his posts on this thread this morning ,instead of doing a little research to back up statements.........

I should be getting my replacement set of spherical rod ends today from McMaster for $17 each. It’s hard to beat the cost and ease of replacement.
My only problem with this style joint has been corrosion. This is mostly due to the vehicle being a daily driver for a few New England winters and me not making sure they stay lubricated and free of salt. The seals 76 bronco J linked to are being used with this set, so I don't expect to replace them for many many years.

I've had OEM ball joints come apart on me, and have seen them come apart on the other peoples vehicles with on the trail. In all instances, yes the joint was past its usable life and should have been replace. However, under these same circumstances, if a spherical rod end was used with a capture washer, the joint would not have totally failed.

I think you should return the $17 heims and buy the most expensive heims you can buy. As you said they will last for years

Moog sets the mark for one-ton TRE's. If someone orders a kit from one of the vendors, they should ask what type of TRE is offered in the kit. The difference in size and quality between brands is ridiculous.

With that in mind, what is the best, most available heim for those who choose to go that route?