Paging the 4BT diesel guys out there

rhino2104 · Feb 14, 2015

I'm working on getting pieces parts together to swap a 4BT into my '76. I thought that I had it all planned out but I've found a couple of things and had a couple of ideas that are making me maybe change direction. The original plan was a 4BT, Dana 20, and an NV4500 transmission.

First, would a NP205 mated to an NV4500 fit in a Bronco? I mean, would it fit in the frame without massive fabrication work or clocking the t-case? I may have a lead on a running 4BT with the VE-pump (I'd prefer the P pump), NP205, and NV4500 in good order so that's why I'm asking.

Second, what about the ZF transmission? I know that a lot of people swap them into v8 Broncos with great results. Other than cost are there any advantages to the ZF vs. the NV4500?

Which route would you go with and why? Keep in mind that this is going to end up being my daily driver and it'll spend probably 95% or more of it's life on the streets.

broncnaz · Feb 14, 2015

A 205 will fit between a bronco frame rails lots of people have used it. Shouldnt have to clock it or anything its a tight fit but it fits.
While a ZF would work I think your better off with the NV especailly if it come with the engine. that way you dont have to source adapters. Along those lines your better off with the 205 as no adapters are needed.
I dont see any differances in transmissions or t cases that are used if your 95% street as they are both truck transmissions and shift like it. Wont matter behind a diesel anyhow.

rhino2104 · Feb 14, 2015

Thanks. I don't know if I'll be able to get it or not since it is bad timing as far as funds go. I knew that some people have used the 205 but didn't know if there were fitment issues.

broncosbybart · Feb 15, 2015

Depending on the price, it should be a good package. It is hard to say on if the 205 will fit as is or may need clocking. Clocking rings should be available. The frame may need to be notched for clearance for the front pulley and/or starter and the oil pan modified to clear the front diff. The t-case shouldn't be much of an issue.

I'm in the middle of my build. Lots of time and fab but it is a complete build w/tons, long arms, etc. I'm able to get away w/ a 1" BL but am using a cowl ind hood and a 4.5" lift. A 3.5" lift would also work and I might eventually do that.

JB Fab · Feb 15, 2015

Depending on body lift, I would plan on some tunnel work for the NV4500.

I have two ZFs behind 4BTs I WILL NOT do that again! The neutral rollover on a ZF is brutal with only two power pulses per revolution, these engines can hammer the crap out of trannys when you turn them up.

VE pumps are great if you want to make easy adjustments. Unless you really plan on turning it WAY up you will be fine with a VE. One of our rigs has POD injectors, HY35 turbo, 45lbs boost, the VE still fuels fine.

The best single change, would be a 3200rpm governor spring.

My 2c....

rhino2104 · Feb 15, 2015

Thanks for all of that insight. I think that I'll stick with my original plan of putting an NV4500 behind it instead of the ZF. The body lift is either going to be a 1" or 2" but I was planning on reworking the trans tunnel anyway or maybe getting one that's designed for the NV4500 from Toms since I'm going to have to replace the floor pans anyway it wouldn't be that much extra work to replace the trans tunnel.

I'll keep that in mind about the governor spring.

ocmojo · Mar 21, 2015

I have a 69 with the 4bta. I have the nv 4500 transmission np 205 TC, I have a 2 inch body lift and a 5.5 inch susp lift,with 35 inch tires. Dana 44 in front with Ford 9 inch. I am running 3.91 gear and it runs right in the engines sweet spot The truck runs very well, about 335 hp and 650 lbs torque. I get 22 mpg in overdrive. The oil pan needs to be notched, the frame is notched at the starter, the front frame brace under the motor has been moved forward. I have the cowl induction hood. Use the nv 4500, it almost bulletproof and has a great overdrive. I am in the process of lowering the susp and body. It is top heavy, maybe because of the motors higher center of gravity and the lifts. I think I am going to 2.5 susp lift and 1-0 inch body lift. I will have to raise the cowl part of the hood about 2 inches and heavily modify the oil pan. I may have to do a little mods to the trans tunnel. I also have to cut 2 inches from the top of the aftercooler. This is a great setup as far as performance and economy.

Unknown · Mar 22, 2015

ocmojo said:
I have a 69 with the 4bta. I have the nv 4500 transmission np 205 TC, I have a 2 inch body lift and a 5.5 inch susp lift,with 35 inch tires. Dana 44 in front with Ford 9 inch. I am running 3.91 gear and it runs right in the engines sweet spot The truck runs very well, about 335 hp and 650 lbs torque. I get 22 mpg in overdrive. The oil pan needs to be notched, the frame is notched at the starter, the front frame brace under the motor has been moved forward. I have the cowl induction hood. Use the nv 4500, it almost bulletproof and has a great overdrive. I am in the process of lowering the susp and body. It is top heavy, maybe because of the motors higher center of gravity and the lifts. I think I am going to 2.5 susp lift and 1-0 inch body lift. I will have to raise the cowl part of the hood about 2 inches and heavily modify the oil pan. I may have to do a little mods to the trans tunnel. I also have to cut 2 inches from the top of the aftercooler. This is a great setup as far as performance and economy.

I'd love to see pics, post up something for us.

Germd · Mar 22, 2015

Unknown said:
I'd love to see pics, post up something for us.

Agree. Would love to see some pics - especially under hood and some of the fab work if possible. Sounds like a great setup.

ocmojo · Mar 22, 2015

Here is a small video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGEvHbWxEvY

ocmojo · Mar 22, 2015

I did not do the install. It was done by previous owner in Oregon. I think I saved alot of headaches going this route. I did some modifications after I bought it.... axles, differentials, shocks, limit straps, roll bar, bumpers, tires and wheels, other crap. I am going to take 3 inches out of the susp lift. The body has to stay with the 2 inch lift. Brake booster and bracket is in the way of end of injection pump.

Pa PITT · Mar 22, 2015

Ocmojo Sweet ride for sure... Yours is much cleaner than Mine for sure.
... I'll see if I can find my 4BT VIDEO ON YOU TUBE.
..... PAPITT'S BRONCO
... Well mine is under PAPITT'S BRONCO ON YOU TUBE. I found it but it didn't paste up.
.......................
...As many 4BT'S AS WE HAVE .. I'm about to think we need a heading maybe after the Bronco tech section. So we could all post up as many of our pictures of our rides & our Builds. Then anyone wanting to check out if they want to maybe do a 4BT Build. It's be much easier to go to one place & get all the info at on source.

Stefan · Jul 18, 2018

That is nice. What are good options that fit the classic Bronco for an automatic transmission?

BonezTheGoon · Jul 19, 2018

rhino2104 said:
Thanks for all of that insight. I think that I'll stick with my original plan of putting an NV4500 behind it instead of the ZF. The body lift is either going to be a 1" or 2" but I was planning on reworking the trans tunnel anyway or maybe getting one that's designed for the NV4500 from Toms since I'm going to have to replace the floor pans anyway it wouldn't be that much extra work to replace the trans tunnel.

I'll keep that in mind about the governor spring.

I have a 4BT with NV4500 and Dana20 in my '72 and I bought the tunnel cover from Toms (which is very nice quality) but doesn't match up given it was designed for the V8 motor placement, bellhousing, and adapter. So to align the cut-outs the folded edges are in the wrong place. Just FYI

Pa PITT · Jul 20, 2018

... SO Tonight I'll start with my ''cheapass'' ..tunnel cover ... Heck I just took an oil box .. The card board box that a case of Delo oil comes in.. I cut it down with my pocket knife. Then I USED Duck Tape & built the box. When I got it shaped like I wanted it.. I removed it & mopped it with Fiberglass & Matt. I mopped both inside & outside. After It was finished I spayed it with Under coating . black.
... I've cut it out, with the sawszall, to do repairs 3 times & refiberglassed it. Works perfect . ANOTHER COAT OF Fiber glass & maybe one coat of matt. & some more fiber glass. It's so strong & I could stand on it...
....................
....Edit & I've even molded cup holders into mine.
..............
... & Mine has been in place for 10 years...
DUCK TAPE & A SOME FIBER GLASS .. don't knock it until you've tried it.

Pa PITT · Jul 20, 2018

... SO I'll say mine has been in about 10 years now . Mine was mostly built to use on the farm. I cut out the front cross member & moved it forward. That allows the motor to be moved lower . THEN I notched the frame for the starter. & I've replaced my starter so It can be done.
.. Next mine came with the ford adaptors for the T19 BUT I have a NP435 &DANA 20 IN MINE... MY NP435 WAS already in place .
........................................
.....Mine has the VE PUMP . & I'VE JUST REPLACED IT .
I DON'T EVEN RUN A FAN BLADE ON mine . I Do have an Electric fan ON MINE.
...............
.. I HAVE A 1 inch body lift & a 2 inch classic lift. & A Stock hood. I don't run an inner cooler. Just the stock Turbo.

Pa PITT · Jul 20, 2018

...
Now I have a bunch of trans parts if your interested..
.. I've got the cummins to Dodge adaptor .. & a dodge flywheel & Clutch set up. used. Throwout fork. .. bell housing Dodge 6bt. & I THINK I HAVE NV4500 TRANS FROM 6bt .5 speed s. It'll need something . I say you have to have an adaptor from the Dodge NV4500 5 SPEED to the Dana 20 or the NP205.
..... MY TRANS IS SHORT THE SHIFTER. . BUT BUY OR MAKE IT.
While I'd worked at Chrysler I'd collected all the trans parts .. I wanted the 5 speed HD Trans from the Diesel in mime. But I got too old & broke. & I didn't want to have mine down too long for the trans swap.
..... BUT NOTHING IS AS STRONG AS THAT 5SPEED DIESEL TRANS FROM the old 6BT .
... ALL THIS TRANS STUFF IS FOR SALE .IF your interested .
.....................
.... & MINE HAS THE 3:55 GEARS IN IT. BUT I think with the 5 speed the 3:91 would be perfect.
................. I set & Idle looking at cows .. So I really have no idea of my actually mileage is .. But at a classic car cruise several years ago . I got 26 mpg .. once.
.. But I'll bet my 4BT HASN'T BEEN TO TOWN 25 TIMES IN 10 YEARS.
iT'S A FARM TRUCK. I FILL IT WITH FUEL from the farm pumps. It has pulled trailers & Drags . Grain Drills. Harrows ..Hay Rakes. & Moved a 20 ft long building .
.. The 4BT is a great tool. & It'll climb a mountain.

Paging the 4BT diesel guys out there

rhino2104

Sr. Member

broncnaz

Bronco Guru

rhino2104

Sr. Member

broncosbybart

Bronco Guru

JB Fab

Bronco Guru

rhino2104

Sr. Member

ocmojo

New Member

Unknown

Sr. Member

Germd

Full Member

ocmojo

New Member

ocmojo

New Member

Pa PITT

Bronco Guru

Stefan

Jr. Member

BonezTheGoon

Full Member

Pa PITT

Bronco Guru

Pa PITT

Bronco Guru

Pa PITT

Bronco Guru

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