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Alignment Results...(What needs to be fixed?)

kholding

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Aside from my tuning issues, I also need to get the front end right. Here are the numbers I got from the alignment shop. They said my caster was WAAAAAY off and that I probably wouldn't be able to correct it. I need to pull the front end off and see what degree (if any) bushings I currently have. We were able to fix the camber with eccentric bushings so I really only need to fix the caster at this point. Are these numbers that bad?
 

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DirtDonk

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Never seen a readout like that before, but for now I'm "assuming" that the caster reading is the two uppper-outer dials?

If so, they may be out of spec for your year truck, but they're fantastic for a modern Bronco setup!
One thing to verify though would be if those are "positive" or "negative" numbers. A negative in the 6 degree range would be sucky, but even a 4 in the positive range would be great. A 6 would be fantastic!

Paul
 
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kholding

kholding

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I asked that as well. They said those are positive numbers. It definitely does not feel "fantastic" on the road. I'm trying to think of how to describe the steering... Heavy at the beginning and wanders above 20mph, not incredibly safe. It tracks straight on the highway but if it gets off just a little, it's an adventure to get it back to good. Not sure if that helps at all.

Just called them back and asked them what the computer would have thought was "green" or "good" and they said 1-3 degrees or split the difference at 2 degrees.
 
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broncnaz

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I agree kinda looks confusing but if thoose are the caster numbers then you should be fine. But you may need more toe in. That may help the wandering.
One issue is that shops tend to go by what the stock numbers are supposed to be not what the modified or has been found to work better numbers are.

You may be able to somewhat check caster if your front axle is stock and unmodified if the pinion is pointed more towards the ground then you have some degreed bushings and they are installed correctly. You most likely already have 7 degree bushings if you have 5-6 positive caster and a lift.
 
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kholding

kholding

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Hmmm? Everyone who has driven it so far agrees there is something weird with the steering. It's a '76 HP full width from an F150 and I have the WCB extended radius arms. Just about everything is new as well. Is it possible that I have too much caster? It definately doesn't feel right.
 

broncnaz

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To much caster should only make it a little harder to steer not a issue with power steering.. Toe in can have a lot of effect on the wandering issue. bigger tires tend to need more toe in than the stock setting. Also you may want to play with tire pressure. Not long ago I had new tires installed and when I left the shop and got on the hiway it handled like crap. pulled over and it had 50 psi in each tire. lowered it to about 30 and it was like night and day in the handling department. Along those lines if you have worn tires that can be a issue as well.
 

DirtDonk

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Go over the specs with us again KH. Such as:

1. How much lift?
2. What steering linkage? '76 Inverted-Y or earlier Inverted-T?
3. What else has been done (or not) to correct the steering?
4. Tires new, old, used, known, age and mileage and pressure?
5. Size and offset of wheels (doesn't look bad in the pics, but curious anyway)?
6. Last wheel bearing service?
7. What trackbar and brackets to compensate?

Enquiring minds wish to know!
Thanks for humoring me.

Paul
 
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kholding

kholding

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Paul, here is what I have:

1. 3.5" lift w/extended radius arms
2. WCB heavy duty heim steering
3. Trac-bar riser on the axle
4. brand new 35" tires @ 35 psi
5. 17 x 8.5" w/5" BS
6. everything in the front end is brand new
7. pictures included to show what it all looks like...
 

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m_m70

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35psi in the front has mine all over the road. I run the fronts between 26 and 28.
Also, I had serious wandering issues after adding new rear springs and not re-torqueing after a few miles.
 

Apogee

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35psi in the front has mine all over the road. I run the fronts between 26 and 28.
Also, I had serious wandering issues after adding new rear springs and not re-torqueing after a few miles.

X2...I typically run about 30-32 psi in my 33's BFG M/T's, and fully expect that to go lower with my 37's. I run about 28-30 psi in my heavier '77 F150 with 35's, as that seems to be that truck/tire combo's happy spot.

Most people here would kill for +6 degrees of caster. As for the toe, I like the idea of using an angle since it isn't impacted by tire diameter, however as stated above, larger tires can certainly benefit from additional toe. If you convert .5 degrees to inches, you have ~.15" toe per side, or .30" total, which actually sounds about right. My brother and I both run about .25 to .31 inch of toe on our rigs with 35's and have dead steady tracking.
 

Timmy390

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Anything above 28psi and my rig no like. Lower that pressure down and give it a go.

Tim
 
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kholding

kholding

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I will reduce the tire pressure and go from there. The steering feels really "heavy" at the beginning (turning left or right) then seems to get easier after about 1/2-3/4 steering wheel movement. Not like a binding feeling, more like the contact patch of the tire changes and gives it a whole new feel. I wish I could describe it better.
 

Apogee

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I will reduce the tire pressure and go from there. The steering feels really "heavy" at the beginning (turning left or right) then seems to get easier after about 1/2-3/4 steering wheel movement. Not like a binding feeling, more like the contact patch of the tire changes and gives it a whole new feel. I wish I could describe it better.

Your tire contact patch does get smaller off center, so if you're having a power steering pump or steering gear issue, it could produce that feeling, but you typically wouldn't notice it driving at highway speeds, more like parking lot maneuvers in my experience.
 
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kholding

kholding

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Update: lowered my tire pressure and it did make a difference. With the camber adjustment the shop just made (the results above were after they fixed the camber) and the pressure change it rides better now for sure. I would call it really good, still not great. I'm thinking about sending my PS pump to Lee's to see if they can upgrade it to give it a little more power. Not sure how much that would change the feel of the steering but might be worth a shot.
 

Whoaa

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I don't have a good way to post a pic of my alignment print out at the moment, but I have it sitting in front of me.
My left side is 5.9, and my right side is 5.6. This is the best I've ever had it, and currently driving better than it ever has.

37" rubber on 17" wheels x 3 1/2" BS, 5 1/2", duffy long arms, 7* C bushings
 

DirtDonk

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What you described last actually sounds like caster reacting against a too-weak power steering setup. More positive caster does in fact roll the tire over on it's side more, as was said. Versus simply pivoting the tire on it's patch as we tend to mentally visualize it.
In a manual steering truck, that much caster would have you pumping iron to get the steering started. Because of the geometry, it literally is trying to maintain it's straight ahead orientation when you're trying to change it.
There is also the possibility that the gear box preload is set too tight. If this was the case then your on-center position would in fact be in a slight bind.

Your trackbar is not parallel to your draglink either from the look of it. Yes, because the trackbar is now shorter than the draglink, keeping them perfectly parallel is not the same as it would be if they were the same length like Ford had them. But it might help to experiment with it some if you can.
To confirm what I said (or prove me mistaken) use some string or something to create a straight line between the two pivot points of the trackbar. Then compare the angles of the string and the draglink to see if there is a difference.
To my feeble geometrically-challenged brain, I would think you could get away with a slightly steeper angle on the trackbar when compared to the draglink, but yours might be a bit more than desirable.

And keep experimenting with the air pressures. Both front and back.
Also experiment with the toe-in to see where yours is happiest. I know you just had it professionally set, but you can easily keep track of how much you change it in one direction (start at 1/4 turn or less at a time on the bar) and you can easily put it back where they set it if you don't see any improvement. Try both more and less toe-in.

Glad you're seeing improvements and driving it. It's a beautiful thing.
You drivin' it up to Lodi next Saturday for our Roundup by any chance?;)

Paul
 
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