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Balancing 37" Beadlocks

rhodesbennett

Newbie
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
26
I have Method Beadlocks on my 69 Bronco and I am stepping up to 37" Mud Terrain KM3's. I would like to get the tires dynamically balanced instead of using dynabeads. I live in Agoura Hills but would be willing to drive to a reputable shop that can do a good job with the balance. Do you have a great shop that can balance 37" beadlocks? The tire shops near me typically give the same response of not wanting to touch beadlocks, fears of liability issues with non DOT tires, concern that the size of the tires will "stress" their machine, etc... Appreciate your input on this. Thanks Dan
 

spap

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
2,478
4 wheel parts has equipment to balance larger tires
 

bchesley

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
327
Most big chain tire stores sell 37”s and have the equipment. I think once mounted they will balance. I bought my method bead locks from 4wheel and I had to mount and take back for balancing. I currently run unbalanced Goodyear MTRs and they don’t vibrate or wobble. I will balance them if I ever need to but they ride super smooth now.


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ame

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
191
Most big chain tire stores sell 37”s and have the equipment. I think once mounted they will balance. I bought my method bead locks from 4wheel and I had to mount and take back for balancing. I currently run unbalanced Goodyear MTRs and they don’t vibrate or wobble. I will balance them if I ever need to but they ride super smooth now.


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I was gonna mention that I only balance bead locks if there is a need but surprising how smooth most I have done are with no balancing.
 

jms5580

Full Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
281
Loc.
Bozeman, MT
Balancing a big tire statically is a crapshoot. As soon as you tear out a chunk the tire is likely unbalanced again. Big problem with mudders. I dumped steel BB's in when I mounted mine and haven't had an issue since. They are noisy at slow speed when they bounce against the rim but otherwise have worked great at highway speeds. There's plenty of options out there for dynamic balancing but this is probably the cheapest. What's the aversion to dynabeads?

As far as what is considered "dynamic balancing," I don't see how any method of applying weights is anything other than static. No tire shops near me did this so I am unfamiliar with the specific practice.

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Scoop

Contributor
Have Bronco, Will Travel
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
10,622
Loc.
Cuchara, CO
Just curious why you object to balancing beads? I've used them on several vehicles including my Bronco crawler on 37's with good results. I always add a bit more than the chart calls for.
 
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rhodesbennett

Newbie
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
26
4 wheel parts has equipment to balance larger tires

I went to 4 Wheel Parts in Thousand Oaks and they told me they wouldn't balance the wheels because they didn't want to assume the liability for beadlocks! Has your experience been different at other 4 Wheel Part stores?
 
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rhodesbennett

Newbie
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
26
Just curious why you object to balancing beads? I've used them on several vehicles including my Bronco crawler on 37's with good results. I always add a bit more than the chart calls for.

Your right. Maybe I should rethink this. I read a few on-line accounts of bad results with balancing beads but I have also seen quite a few stories where people are really happy with the results. I will definitely consider this again!
 
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rhodesbennett

Newbie
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
26
Balancing a big tire statically is a crapshoot. As soon as you tear out a chunk the tire is likely unbalanced again. Big problem with mudders. I dumped steel BB's in when I mounted mine and haven't had an issue since. They are noisy at slow speed when they bounce against the rim but otherwise have worked great at highway speeds. There's plenty of options out there for dynamic balancing but this is probably the cheapest. What's the aversion to dynabeads?

As far as what is considered "dynamic balancing," I don't see how any method of applying weights is anything other than static. No tire shops near me did this so I am unfamiliar with the specific practice.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Thanks for the response. All good points. Tearing out a chunk with resultant unbalancing is a definite concern and having to constantly take them in for rebalancing would be a hassle.
 

Mdsuits

New Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
24
I think dynabeads are the best option. They work great in my 40s with walker Evans beadlocks.
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
805
.... As far as what is considered "dynamic balancing," I don't see how any method of applying weights is anything other than static. No tire shops near me did this so I am unfamiliar with the specific practice.

"Dynamic" or "static" balancing refers to the tire as you are doing the balancing, not the balancing weights.

Static balancing just sets the tire in one place and you add weights around the wheel to get it to sit level. This will keep the tire from trying to bounce as it rolls, but does nothing to cancel out sidewall-to-sidewall imbalances that make the tire shimmy from side-to-side. (Typically the side-to-side issues are small enough that you can get away with this, but it's not ideal.)

Dynamic balancing means the tire is spun up to speed on a machine that takes measurements and calculates where the balance weights go. These machines will tell you not only where around the wheel to put weights to keep it from bouncing, but also whether to put them on the inside or outside of the rim to stop the shimmy. This obviously will give a smoother ride (the difference may or may not be significant).

But as discussed already, both of these are one-time snapshots, and as you tear chunks of rubber out of your tread they won't rebalance the tires. Balancing beads will do that, but that's separate from what is called "dynamic balancing."
 
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rhodesbennett

Newbie
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
26
I found a few articles on-line that provide additional information regarding the pros and cons of balancing beads:

By: William Connor from RideApart
Some folks say Dyna Beads are an easy way to ensure balanced tires; others say they could cause damage. We put them to the test.
Dyna Beads - Miracle Balancing Cure or Tire Snake Oil?
A few months ago I wrote a Facebook post about the ineffectiveness and possible damage caused by Dyna Beads. After a bit of a kerfuffle they sent me two sets for testing, a set for my Jeep and one for my motorcycle. I have spent a great deal of time testing and using them and have reached a conclusion as whether or not I should offer Dyna Beads a Mea Culpa.

Alright, So Do They Work?
If I could only use one word to say whether the Dyna Beads work the answer would be ... maybe. I would love to say yes but there are a few too many caveats.

Let me be very clear - Dyna Beads work to balance a tire in the vertical plane. They can remove imbalance as a tire travels forward and moves up and down.However, that strength illuminates Dyna Beads' weakness: they only work in the vertical. If your tire - or wheel - has any lateral imbalance you will need to do a traditional balance to correct it.

How do you know if you have a lateral imbalance?

You won't until you either try the beads or have them balanced using traditional methods. That means you need to be very lucky or spend more money to use an auto balancing bead than if you had the tires balanced once using the traditional method.

If you have to manually balance the tires because of a lateral imbalance, you can add a small amount of the beads to maintain the balance as tires wear and deform from use. Again, this will only help if the imbalance is in the vertical plane and not a lateral imbalance. What they can offer is to reduce the amount of weights needed to balance a tire. For large tires, or tires with a significant amount of radial run-out, the beads can lessen the amount of physical weights installed in the wheel. Handy but not life altering.

So, am I hard at work crafting a tearful Facebook apology? The answer is no. Dyna Beads may work wonderfully for others, but I am no longer running the beads due to their inconsistent balancing of the tires.

Hey, RideApart Nation
What has been your experience using Dyna Beads?Does It Really Work?
The big question with these beads is do they really work? Depends on who you ask.

Also, Carol over at Innovative Balancing says that while the physics is sound, all circumstances are different and every set of tires can have their own issues.

We reached out to a long-time SEMI driver, who said:

They aren’t that common and there’s really nothing that says they’re effective. I’ve heard of them a lot more in offroad vehicles than in semi-trucks. Usually where the tire and rim are so large that clamping on weights is not really feasible (tire overruns the rim or rim has bead locks). I don’t think they work to balance the tire so much as they do to counter the vibration by absorbing some of it with kinetic energy.

Jason weighed in with:

I don’t think the beads have much of a counter-balancing effect. I can’t image that the distribution of beads on the inside surface of the tire is all that dynamic. Once you get spinning, the beads are going to line up as we would expect them to, basically evenly spaced around the inside of the tire.
Because the beads add substantial mass at the furthest point from the center of the wheel/tire assembly, they significantly increase the force of momentum in the direction of travel. This makes any small imbalance in the tire much harder to feel.

Because all of these beads are equally distant from the center of the wheel/tire and because they’re evenly distributed along the inside of the tire, they help “move” the center of mass to where it should be.

So basically, they work, but not because of the reasons given on the InnovativeBalancing.com website. They just add weight to the tire tread in a very even manner.

If there’s a downside to these beads, it’s that they increase the rotational mass of each wheel by a large margin. That is going to reduce acceleration and hurt fuel economy…so I wouldn’t use these unless I absolutely had to.

What do you think? Personal experience is often the best test...
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
805
.... If there’s a downside to these beads, it’s that they increase the rotational mass of each wheel by a large margin. That is going to reduce acceleration and hurt fuel economy…so I wouldn’t use these unless I absolutely had to....

I've heard this before, but it doesn't seem to pass the "sniff test" for me. The balancing beads I've seen come in a 4 ounce packet. Even if you put two packets in a tire you're still only at 1/2 pound. The relatively small 33/10.50x15 BFG A/Ts on my Bronco weigh 51 pounds each. Adding less than 1% of the tire weight does not seem like "a large margin" to me by any stretch.

And calling it "rotational mass" seems like a little bit of a stretch too. Yes, while you are driving steady-state they will be rotating with the tire. But they are free to move separate from the tire too, so if you are accelerating or braking hard it's not like you need to get the beads to accelerate or decelerate at the same rate as the tires.

Agreed that they can't deal with a lateral imbalance (that requires dynamic balancing as I described above). But if they help at all it has to be that they are distributing themselves around the tire unevenly to provide a more even rotational balance.

I bought one pack and put 2 ounces of beads into each of the two most chunked-out tires I have (they had been balanced at a tire shop many rocks ago). I had a pretty noticeable vibration before and it sure seemed better after. I'd be shocked if they were a perfect cure-all, but they do seem to help. I'm planning on getting beadlocks soon and I think I'm going to just go with balancing beads when I do. We'll see how good they do.
 

jms5580

Full Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
281
Loc.
Bozeman, MT
"Dynamic" or "static" balancing refers to the tire as you are doing the balancing, not the balancing weights.



Static balancing just sets the tire in one place and you add weights around the wheel to get it to sit level. This will keep the tire from trying to bounce as it rolls, but does nothing to cancel out sidewall-to-sidewall imbalances that make the tire shimmy from side-to-side. (Typically the side-to-side issues are small enough that you can get away with this, but it's not ideal.)



Dynamic balancing means the tire is spun up to speed on a machine that takes measurements and calculates where the balance weights go. These machines will tell you not only where around the wheel to put weights to keep it from bouncing, but also whether to put them on the inside or outside of the rim to stop the shimmy. This obviously will give a smoother ride (the difference may or may not be significant).



But as discussed already, both of these are one-time snapshots, and as you tear chunks of rubber out of your tread they won't rebalance the tires. Balancing beads will do that, but that's separate from what is called "dynamic balancing."
Thanks, that makes sense now.

As for what you said in relation to rotational mass, I agree 100%. I'm using steel BB's (a hefty amount) and while I didn't dyno it before/after I don't see any difference. I also get 13 mpg on a 302 with a q jet (37's), tuned by me to "run well." I'm not going to complain about that.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

MeyerzBronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
381
I have Method Beadlocks on my 69 Bronco and I am stepping up to 37" Mud Terrain KM3's. I would like to get the tires dynamically balanced instead of using dynabeads. I live in Agoura Hills but would be willing to drive to a reputable shop that can do a good job with the balance. Do you have a great shop that can balance 37" beadlocks? The tire shops near me typically give the same response of not wanting to touch beadlocks, fears of liability issues with non DOT tires, concern that the size of the tires will "stress" their machine, etc... Appreciate your input on this. Thanks Dan

What did you end up doing Ron?
 

rjlougee

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2001
Messages
1,959
I would add a vote for Centramatic Wheel balancers. I have several sets of beadlocks and/or big tires on aluminum rims and use them with good success.

Basically, it's a thin metal disk that goes over the wheel studs and mounts between the wheel and disk/drum face. They have a small ring around the outside that contains a fluid and BBs. As you drive they settle out to where needed, similar to the balancing bead approach, but much easier.

They are significantly more expensive at @$200 for a set of four.
HTH, Joe
 

MeyerzBronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
381
<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/69169651" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Video on it. I forgot someone gave me a set of these. I’ll have to try it.
 
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