• Welcome to ClassicBroncos! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all the site features, please take a moment to register. It's fast, simple and absolutely free. So please join our community today!
    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

Engine Mount Alignment Help

OP
OP
CowboyGrin

CowboyGrin

Contributor
the circus looks like fun
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
159
Loc.
Oklahoma
I love it when this happens. (Bax is 100% correct.) I have an ax15 and an atlas mocked up in the shop right now. I will have to go look but I think my atlas is higher than yours. Is the 4 speed atlas wider than the 2 speed?
By higher, do you mean clocked higher or sitting higher up in the frame? It’s my understanding the back end of a 4 speed is essentially a 2 speed unit. It may appear lower because the back end is projected down further along the down angle of the drivetrain due to the extra length of the planetary/under drive assembly.
 
OP
OP
CowboyGrin

CowboyGrin

Contributor
the circus looks like fun
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
159
Loc.
Oklahoma
Nope I just went out and looked and yours is a little higher than where mine is. You win.
That was quick, didn’t even have time to plunk out a response. Mine is propped up with 2x4 at the crossmember so maybe my vertical is off.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
6,031
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
I love it when this happens. (Bax is 100% correct.) I have an ax15 and an atlas mocked up in the shop right now. I will have to go look but I think my atlas is higher than yours. Is the 4 speed atlas wider than the 2 speed?
No same width.
 

Bonefizz

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
293
Loc.
The poor house
I had a fitment issue with WH/Advance Adapter crossmember for the AX15 as well. I had to drill new holes. Annoying since the picture in the documentation from AA has the holes in the correct place. Perhaps their drilling jig is wrong at the factory.
 

bigmuddy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
7,026
Loc.
Marthasville Missouri
This seems to be a common issue with heavy duty motor mounts.
The mounting holes in the Bronco frame are in the same plane, front to back.
I can't find dimensions of bolt holes in SBF for the motor mounts.
The motor mounts are not symmetrical and the instructions say "engine mount plate can only be installed one way". Instructions say nothing about left or right mount.

Question: When both motor mounts are bolted to block are studs/bolts that go into frame holes in the same plane, front to back?

View attachment 893488
Thanks for asking these questions. I am working on getting 5.8, 4r70w and atlas II in the frame and ran into problems with the extreme mounts. They had worked fine on the previous 5.0 combination I was running and I believe after reading this that I must have mixed the pieces up after painting. I haven't found a good combination yet that allows the engine to drop back in, but I guess the next time is the charm?! Anyway, very timely post!
 

Steve83

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
9,005
Loc.
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
I suspect the datum line is off a bit in the section views.
I'm surprised by 2 things: 1) that no one noticed that before, and 2) that it's the only error (so far). But you're right that the Section F datum line is ~27 pixels too low. I've corrected it on my computer, but SMN hasn't let me upload anything for several months, so I can't replace the public version. I'll edit a warning into the caption, though.
 

bigmuddy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
7,026
Loc.
Marthasville Missouri
I'm surprised by 2 things: 1) that no one noticed that before, and 2) that it's the only error (so far). But you're right that the Section F datum line is ~27 pixels too low. I've corrected it on my computer, but SMN hasn't let me upload anything for several months, so I can't replace the public version. I'll edit a warning into the caption, though.
Oooorrrr, you could just become a contributor here and support the site like so many of us do...
 

Steve83

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
9,005
Loc.
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
I do contribute and support the site. But with things that are more useful to other users than money. What good would my "contributor" badge have done CowboyGrin, if I had had one? What good does yours do him? You're not supporting the site - you're supporting the site OWNERS. I support the site USERS. ;)
 

bigmuddy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
7,026
Loc.
Marthasville Missouri
I do contribute and support the site. But with things that are more useful to other users than money. What good would my "contributor" badge have done CowboyGrin, if I had had one? What good does yours do him? You're not supporting the site - you're supporting the site OWNERS. I support the site USERS. ;)
Cheeky...
Most of us all try support the site through posts of help and hopefully better understanding.
What you do is more or less free load by using an offsite janky Supermotors site for linking pics.
Your posts although usually helpful, did zip for helping Jon keep the site up and running.

Considering the competition Jon has with all of the facebook bronco sites, $12.00 for the year helps keep the site up and functioning I would hope.

If you had been a contributor and been able to link your pics direct to CB.com maybe the pixel wouldn't have been in question on this particular thread, and unlike Supermotors you could update your bad data in real time as apparently Supermotors will not let you...
 

Steve83

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
9,005
Loc.
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
What you do is more or less free load by using an offsite janky Supermotors site for linking pics.
My use of a different image host does NOT cost this site anything. And I have been using SMN since before it was called SMN, so I'm not gonna move all my pictures (there are a few hundred THOUSAND) every time I join a new upstart discussion forum (and I've been discussing vehicles TO HELP THEIR OWNERS online since before discussion forums existed).
...did zip for helping Jon keep the site up and running.
My posts certainly don't do anything to HURT him, but if they attract paying users (and I DO occasionally direct new users here), then they ARE helping him.
Considering the competition Jon has...
If YOU want to consider that, you're welcome to. It's not my concern, though. My concern is helping people keep their Broncos running. I don't really care what site or format I'm using to do it, and I've seen more than one format come & go. I don't take responsibility for ANY of them dying off.
If you had been a contributor and been able to link your pics direct to CB...
...I still wouldn't have, because as I said, I have FAR too many pics to move them here. And they've existed longer than CB has, so I couldn't have begun here. And even if I did, it wouldn't be easy to post them on ALL THE OTHER forums that I use. SMN makes it easy to upload a pic ONCE, and then re-post it everywhere.
...your bad data...
What a TROLL! You obviously have no idea how much time & effort went into that diagram, or the THOUSANDS of others I've made freely available to you & everyone else over the past ~30 years. Probably because you can't be bothered to do anything more than send in a few bucks to salve your conscience after spending hours doing NOTHING to help anyone other than antagonize those who actually care enough to WORK on big technical projects. Do you know what diagram was available BEFORE I created that one (with ONE minor error, so far)? A sketch with maybe 4 useable dimensions on it, and one was WRONG. Do some searching and look at it - oh, wait; you don't put that kind of effort forth.
...apparently Supermotors will not let you...
All websites have occasional problems. And CB's history of image hosting is not perfect, either. Not even for the paying members. So yes, SMN has a problem right now, but it'll probably be fixed soon.
 

bigmuddy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
7,026
Loc.
Marthasville Missouri
My use of a different image host does NOT cost this site anything. And I have been using SMN since before it was called SMN, so I'm not gonna move all my pictures (there are a few hundred THOUSAND) every time I join a new upstart discussion forum (and I've been discussing vehicles TO HELP THEIR OWNERS online since before discussion forums existed).

My posts certainly don't do anything to HURT him, but if they attract paying users (and I DO occasionally direct new users here), then they ARE helping him.

If YOU want to consider that, you're welcome to. It's not my concern, though. My concern is helping people keep their Broncos running. I don't really care what site or format I'm using to do it, and I've seen more than one format come & go. I don't take responsibility for ANY of them dying off.

...I still wouldn't have, because as I said, I have FAR too many pics to move them here. And they've existed longer than CB has, so I couldn't have begun here. And even if I did, it wouldn't be easy to post them on ALL THE OTHER forums that I use. SMN makes it easy to upload a pic ONCE, and then re-post it everywhere.

What a TROLL! You obviously have no idea how much time & effort went into that diagram, or the THOUSANDS of others I've made freely available to you & everyone else over the past ~30 years. Probably because you can't be bothered to do anything more than send in a few bucks to salve your conscience after spending hours doing NOTHING to help anyone other than antagonize those who actually care enough to WORK on big technical projects. Do you know what diagram was available BEFORE I created that one (with ONE minor error, so far)? A sketch with maybe 4 useable dimensions on it, and one was WRONG. Do some searching and look at it - oh, wait; you don't put that kind of effort forth.

All websites have occasional problems. And CB's history of image hosting is not perfect, either. Not even for the paying members. So yes, SMN has a problem right now, but it'll probably be fixed soon.
Its $12 dollars a year....
 

Splash440

Contributor
Newbie
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Messages
16
Loc.
Dover, NC
I'm surprised by 2 things: 1) that no one noticed that before, and 2) that it's the only error (so far). But you're right that the Section F datum line is ~27 pixels too low. I've corrected it on my computer, but SMN hasn't let me upload anything for several months, so I can't replace the public version. I'll edit a warning into the caption, though.
I have a question about the measurements on the drawing. First, sorry for what might be a silly question.

I followed the instructions on download and measurement, but I must be doing something wrong and none of the numbers look right.

I took a measurement on the frame (from top) between the body mounts (first on after engine mount). I show 191 pixels from center to center of the hole. Based on my logic you would just multiple this by 16 and it should be inches. Based on this method it would be 30.56 inches, however the actual is more like 38.5.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

Splash440

Contributor
Newbie
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Messages
16
Loc.
Dover, NC
I have a question about the measurements on the drawing. First, sorry for what might be a silly question.

I followed the instructions on download and measurement, but I must be doing something wrong and none of the numbers look right.

I took a measurement on the frame (from top) between the body mounts (first on after engine mount). I show 191 pixels from center to center of the hole. Based on my logic you would just multiple this by 16 and it should be inches. Based on this method it would be 30.56 inches, however the actual is more like 38.5.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the questions, I resolved the issue.

I had the low resolution version of the drawing. As stated in the notes, once I got the original version it worked great.

Thanks
 

bigmuddy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
7,026
Loc.
Marthasville Missouri
Then YOU pay it. Just double up to cover me. It's just $12/yr. (y)

Glad you got it figured out. But you DIVIDE the number of pixels by 16 to get inches; not multiply.
Then YOU pay it. Just double up to cover me. It's just $12/yr. (y)

Glad you got it figured out. But you DIVIDE the number of pixels by 16 to get inches; not multiply.
Frankly I had considered it.

Then I thought no, Steve wouldn't want that. His masterful contributions, that no one else brings to the table is worth at least $12.00. Of which I am sure everyone on the site who does pay certainly recognizes...
 
OP
OP
CowboyGrin

CowboyGrin

Contributor
the circus looks like fun
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
159
Loc.
Oklahoma
Steve wouldn't want that. His masterful contributions, that no one else brings to the table is worth at least $12.00. Of which I am sure everyone on the site who does pay certainly recognizes...
Agreed. If there was a way to gift contributor status, I would have already done so. I‘m sure Steve’s drawing took hours to create, and time is money. His drawing saved me time and gave me the assurance that what I was working with was worth my additional time.

It‘s the contributions on this site (contributor or not) that makes CB and the EB community what it is. I’ve wanted an EB for over 30 years and finally now have one, doing a frame-off resto-mod on a gutted fire survivor. Definitely a project that a novice hack like me wouldn’t attempt without the resources available on CB.

Thanks for confirming the discrepancy Steve. Hope someone else‘s project can benefit also.
 
OP
OP
CowboyGrin

CowboyGrin

Contributor
the circus looks like fun
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
159
Loc.
Oklahoma
Following up after finally digging a bit deeper. I’m really disappointed in the crossmember design from AA. Not only are the holes punched in a non-stock location, the bend on the driver side is different than the passenger side and will likely conflict with the front driveshaft, especially with an Atlas 4-speed or doubler.

412031A5-8C46-4586-87B2-3FDFE872122E.jpeg

FDE70D4C-5572-4A6A-AAD1-002643DC805C.jpeg
4C23CA2A-B566-465B-B528-5E2AE22C2BF0.jpeg
^driver’s side


904C0263-78E2-4277-AF56-1DACE0B8D21B.jpeg
^passenger side

123615F3-A3EC-4BDA-8D57-F3888E816690.jpeg E620530F-7314-40F8-9E27-67D14B8D8D7B.jpeg

I may try to flip the bracket backwards and punch new holes on what is currently the passenger side. But ultimately may have to punt and fab a custom crossmember as jamesroney suggests. I wouldn’t have bought the crossmember knowing what I know now. Oh well.
 
OP
OP
CowboyGrin

CowboyGrin

Contributor
the circus looks like fun
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
159
Loc.
Oklahoma
On a brighter note, frame mounts came off easier than expected. Ready for welding when life allows some more time… ED595F83-12C9-41FF-A92E-EDB424B58ABE.jpeg 19327397-0E46-4CD5-A3AD-C137289EAA12.jpeg 58176C5F-D1C8-4E79-89C0-306AF6F30A21.jpeg
 
Top