HELP..Flow Kooler H20 pump has me 20' hotter?

[bronko69er]

Ok, I just had a long chat with my car guy here at work (fellow ME) and we came to this conclusion:
For those who installed a higher temp t-stat, this is what is most likley happeneing. By putting in the higher temp t-stat, you are increasing the flow restriction whereby increasing the pressure in the motor. If the pressure is increased, the temp at which the water will boil will increase as well. As long as the water is not boiling, it will remove alot of heat from what it's in contact with. As soon as it starts to boil the metal temp will climb. This is why we add coolant and the system is pressurized, to keep the mix from boiling. You engineers may remember that the specific heat of water vapor is far smaller than that of liquid water.
Adding flow restriction or some other means to generate pressure, will go a long way in promoting heat transfer....... More to come. Saty tuned, Gotta go crack my thermodynamics book.

 

[23firefly]

Eureka!!!!!


I think I figured it out!

I took out the thermostat completly and then put the housing back on. I refilled the coolent and let it idle on the driveway for a while and it stayed at 180 degrees.
Whew!!!

I then took it for a drive around the block and the temp stayed in the 180-195 range.


So here is the question:

Do I have a bad Thermostat or did I install it wrong?

Here is how I had it installed into the housing.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/23firefly/IMG_1619.jpg

 

[broncnaz]

It was installed correctly. It may have either not been working properly or another thing that I just though of is the higher flow pump may have been pushing it closed slighly but I really doubt that. Usually its recommended to run the T stats that have a small popett valve with high flow pumps. Since yours doesnt apear to have one it could have been a air pocket as others have suggested

 

[needabronco]

I remember a thread a while back that was similer. Basically t-stats are different, some 180's are open at 180 and some start to open at 180 and so on. I have no idea how you determine what you have though. My flowkooler and 180 t-stat at idle won't go above 180 and at speed on the highway stays at 180 all day long...

 

[Skuzzlebutt]

I got a bad thermostat when I installed my new engine. It is the cheapest part to replace and see.

Me too. But since the 'stat was new I replaced the radiator and then the water pump trying to cool it down. Waste of time & money it was.

 

[SurfCityEB66]

Something else you might want to look at is an in-line rad filter. You would be amazed by how much material flakes off the block and ends up stuck in your radiator. I have to clean mine out every couple of months!

 

[76Broncofromhell]

It's installed right. Making your engine run ATDC will make it run hot as hell. You should be at 8-13 BTDC.

 

[bmc69]

How did you do that?
I imagine cutting a slot ion the 3 sides of the tank, inserting a flat plate and welding back up the slots and the plate. Make sense? Is there a better way?

Exactly how I do it.

 

[COBlu77]

I have a FlowKooler that I run without issue and I vaguely remember their instructions saying to use a balanced thermostat with their water pumps. Like a Robert Shaw or Mr Gasket type.

 

[bronko69er]

I found a post where someone explaies exactly what I was getting at.
http://yarchive.net/car/engine_water_restrict.html

 

[23firefly]

So I have tryed setting the timing to 10 BTDC and still running the same temp.

I'm not sure what to do next. Almost seems like it's time to try a new bugger radiator. I have a copper 19"x22" that the old owner said was from Wild horses. I have flushed it a few time along with the block to hoping that would help but nothing.

So here is a re cap:

351-W
new flowkooler water pump
took out the thermostat "until I can get cooler"
timing at 10 BTDC
Taurus elec. fan with full shroud

And I'm still running in the 210 range just cruising around town. 210 wouldn't be a problem if it came down from there however once it's at 210 it stays there.

I welcome any suggestions

 

[SpareParts]

I would try to install the 195 thermostat. It sounds logical what everybody else is saying, and it is cheep.

I also have a high volume alum. water pump, I think mine is a Milodine? I have not ran this motor in my bronco yet, but it never ran hot in my truck. I always ran a 180 deg. high flow thermostat. It is a Stant I think, but I had a very weak elec. fan also and still had no problem.

David

 

[broncnaz]

I'd consider a new radiator or going back to a mechanical fan or both at this point. Like I said before I used to run a 4 row and it ran hotter than my stock one did. Went back to a 3 row and it doesnt go above 190 anymore anytime. In my opinion the fan couldnt pull enough air through a 4 row to cool it properly when I went from a 4 row to a 3 row the radiator was my only change the 4 row was only 5-6 years old and always ran hot. The 3 row HD radiator from BC's was the answer to my problems.

 

[Amac70]

I run at 210 all day long, that is not that high. As long as your not running in the 220-230 range and above you should be fine. I know thats probally not what you want to hear but you should be fine.

 

[Pa PITT]

This is going to sound like crap ola but I'd go get 3 cheap thermostates ...the 2.00 walmarts special 160,180,195 and any other one if available ...put them in one at a time.. run it down the road see which one is best ...if it was running cool before the fancy water pump change then I might have to go take and match one up to the pump I pulled off ..and start over ...
Years ago when I owned my parts house my old 1980 300cid bronco ran hot ..hot all the time ..normal ....it alway put the neddle between the m and the a ..well I wanted it cooler I put 6 different states in it all ran hot Robert Shaw dealer cost was 18.00 bucks .......well one day I was working on it for some reason and I had some 180 thermostates that I'd give .85 cent for ..I put one of them in it ...WA LA....fixed it ran pointed between the N an O..
that state has now been in it since the 1980's .....don't knock until you tried it........

 

[23firefly]

I understand the discussion about the thermostat and was thinking the same direction.
If I pulled any thermostat I have out and ran it without one at all, wouldn't I be running as cool as the cooling system is able to go?

If thats the case, then all indications are pointing to........

-Getting a bigger better radiator


No matter how awesome my water pump is, an engine will still run hot if the radiator isn't sufficent.

 

[la77]

Every Time I Have Run A Vehicle Without A Thermostat They Have Actually Run Hotter. Ben Told It Was Because The Water In The Rad. Doesn't Get A Chance To Cool Off As Much

 

[SpareParts]

Taking the stat out will make it run hotter. The water just runs through the rad. and does not have a chance to cool down. The 195 deg. will give the water a chance to cool before going back to the motor. I have also had 6 bad stats in a row. They would either stick closed or blow apart. The were not AutoZone specials either, I don't remember the brand but it was a common name brand.

David

 

[BlackHorse]

I understand the discussion about the thermostat and was thinking the same direction.
If I pulled any thermostat I have out and ran it without one at all, wouldn't I be running as cool as the cooling system is able to go?

NO, because the water will then move to fast through the system. If you go no thermostat Moroso make a plate kit with different size holes. Bigger=faster flow. Smaller=slower flow.

All things being equal and working properley in the cooling system you can only work with air flow and water speed.


No matter how awesome my water pump is, an engine will still run hot if the radiator isn't sufficent.

Good luck!

 

[ugly74]

I've seen engines run without thermostats, but there was a restrictor plate installed where the thermostat would normally go. it's a bandaid at best.

ever since I installed my Flow Kooler and new 4 core radiator, my temp will creep to almost 210 if I'm idling for more than 10 minutes. with the old crusty 3 core and stock pump, it wouldn't do that.