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stub shaft play

boydknudsen

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
103
Loc.
Watertown
I am working on the hub assembly to rectify a .050" wobble in the rotor of my front disc brakes. The front end is a dana 44 disc brake conversion. Is the stub shaft coming through the spindle supposed to have some play in it? I know its supposed to be able to move in and out, but when I grab the knuckle and push/pull it to front to back of the truck I feel a little play. Both sides exhibit this. Is that normal?
 

gnpenning

Contributor
Bronco Slave
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
2,211
Loc.
I have more questions than answers.
Yes that is normal. Your rotor run out is related to something else. The stub shaft doesn't carry any real vehicle weight. Simply put you can take out the axle shaft and still drive the rig.

The rotor rides on a inner and outer bearing on the spindle. You need to check wheel bearings and preload. Also rotor run out if bearings and preload are good.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,550
Yep, what gn said. There is a spindle bearing that supports the stub shaft on the inner side though, so if that's worn out or missing there will be excess play.
Under normal conditions you can grab the tip of the shaft as it sticks through the spindle and just wobble it in every direction until it stops on the spindle itself. But if you can grab the u-joint yoke end and move it around a lot, there may be wear in the spindle bearing to look into.

The axle shaft assembly over all is only supported on it's inner-most point of the inner axle by the differential side gear, and the outer-most point by the spindle bearing. There is also some support afforded by the locking hub mechanism, or drive flange.
All in all, once it's all together it's not going to move enough to cause trouble.

You can tighten it up some additional amount by doing the off-roaders trick of packing the spindle full with grease during service. This not only helps stabilize the axle inside the spindle, but keeps moisture outside from getting inside.

Paul
 
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boydknudsen

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
103
Loc.
Watertown
Sounds like I only need to worry about my run out on the rotor hub assembly. I’m gonna take it to the machinist tomorrow to have them true it up on the lathe. Tomorrow I’m also going to buy the tool for the axle nut so I can properly do that, rather than using the old hammer and punch guessing method for bearing preload. After I tighten the first not up to 50 pounds, I understand I back it off a quarter turn and re-tighten. What is the final torque on the first nut? Then what is the proper torque for the second nut after the washer?
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,550
Tomorrow I’m also going to buy the tool for the axle nut so I can properly do that, rather than using the old hammer and punch guessing method for bearing preload.

Haha! Noooo, say it ain't sooooo!!!!;D
Definitely helps to have the big socket. Plenty of pros have tried, but you'll never get the proper torques with a hammer, as you guessed.

After I tighten the first not up to 50 pounds, I understand I back it off a quarter turn and re-tighten.

Negative.
You tighten to 50lbs while rotating the hub, then back off the 1/4 turn. Then leave it!
It's super loose at this point, but will tighten up with the final torque of the outer locking nut.
Just remember, there is NO PRELOAD on the bearing. No such thing in this case, as it's all about free-play. It's very minimal free-play, but it's still free-play.
The specification is .001" to .010" with somewhere at the lower end to middle being more desirable.

What is the final torque on the first nut?

As described, there is no final torque for the inner adjusting nut. Just leave it backed off 1/4 turn.
It's not a bad practice to torque twice to that 50lbs while rotating, but the final adjustment on the inner nut is the 1/4 turn back-off.

Then what is the proper torque for the second nut after the washer?

After you line up a hole in the washer with the pin on the inner nut, the outer lock nut gets torqued to 100lbs.
The range of specifications is staggering, as I've seen them recommended in the books at anything between 50lbs and 200lbs! Online I've even seen YouTubers go as low as 35lbs. But never seen that in a Ford book myself. The lowest I remember in a Ford book was 75lbs I think. And that's what I would use as a minimum, but I usually go to 100 nowadays.

Once you've achieved that 75lbs or more, you will be amazed at how tight the bearing clearance has been pulled up. From loosey-goosey with the nut backed off 1/4 turn, to minimal clearance. All just from torquing the outer lock nut.

So, to re-re-reiterate...

1. Inner adjusting nut installed with small pin facing outward, towards you. Torque to 50lbs while spinning the hub/rotor/wheel. This sets the races and ensures that grease in the bearings is squeezed out of the rollers so as to not skew the later readings.

2. Back off 90° or 1/4 turn. Ignore how loose the clearance is for the moment.

3. Install the locking ring so that one of the holes fits CLEANLY over the pin. If the two do not line up perfectly you can flip the ring over (holes are offset from the tang) and try again. If it still does not line up, you can turn the nut slightly so that it does.

4. Install outer locking nut to between 75 and 125 pounds.

5. If possible, set up a jig with a dial-indicator to check bearing clearance/free-play. Not everyone has the tools to do this of course, but if you do it's worth checking so that you can verify the condition of all parts. If they're in good shape your clearance will be between 1 and 10 thousandths of an inch.
If you have experienced and "calibrated" hands, you can actually tell down to probably 5 or 6 thousandths. Or even tighter if you're really good!
Bottom line is it's tight, but still has clearance with zero preload.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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boydknudsen

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
103
Loc.
Watertown
I have one remaining problem. When I rotate my assembled hub assembly now I hear a slight clacking once per rotation. Best I can figure is that one of my cogs for the lockout hub is cockeyed and somehow rubbing on my stub shaft for about 90 degrees of a full rotation every time around. I think this because I feel the rub on the axle ujoint just behind the rotor.
My cogs were a little tight going in as the hub is a little banged up and out of round at the very end. The inner cog does slide freely in and out.
The clacking sound disappears when the lockout is engaged in 4x4 and reappears in freewheel.
 
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boydknudsen

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
103
Loc.
Watertown
Found the culprit. I think the end of my hub is banged up too much causing the ring with tangs that pushes the inner cog to rub on the outer cog for the locking mechanism. In freewheel, the inside of the tangs show wear marks from the teeth of the outer cog. I took a dremel grinder to the inside of the tangs and got almost all of the rubbing gone. Weird that this showed up now, I haven't done any offroad stuff lately and we don't have rocks that would bang up that exposed hub.
 
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