WH Mean Green starter vs. Gear Reduction starter UPDATE Post 26

[70 Steed]

Well... I ordered up the Mean Green. It's only money.

 

[bronconut73]

Well... I ordered up the Mean Green. It's only money.

You will not have to deal with the poor QC of the typical remanufactured starter that we see with the PMGR.

Your Mean Green is a true HQ HD electrical component that is made, tested, and QC'd right here in the US.

Congrats.

 

[jckkys]

Cranking a small block Ford isn't a big challenge for even the OE starter motor. We're not talking about a big diesel on a sub zero morning. I've started the 302 many times in gear after the clutch linkage broke just to get back to civilization. The OE starter did it easily. The reason to buy a Denso starter is longevity, that's many times greater than other starters. The title of this thread is incorrect. The Denso starter IS a gear reduction starter, even if it's renamed Mean Green.

 

[MarsChariot]

One final point worth mentioning is the fact that the MG starter is clockable. When I was installing one on the 76 it would not fit due to contact with the headers. I didn't have this problem on the 71. But since the starter is fully clockable I simply rotated it 180 degrees using the removable mounting flange. I was a little concerned at first, but then I realized that the starter was now far away from the headers, yet still tucked between the frame and the oil pan. So, yes, an upside-down starter. But now it is far from the killer heat of the exhaust.

 

[70 Steed]

Cranking a small block Ford isn't a big challenge for even the OE starter motor. We're not talking about a big diesel on a sub zero morning. I've started the 302 many times in gear after the clutch linkage broke just to get back to civilization. The OE starter did it easily. The reason to buy a Denso starter is longevity, that's many times greater than other starters. The title of this thread is incorrect. The Denso starter IS a gear reduction starter, even if it's renamed Mean Green.

I know that both the Mean Green and the gear reduction starters that WH sells are gear reduction starters. I called them Mean Green and gear reduction because that's what WH calls them in their catalog. I was doing it for clarity.

 

[70 Steed]

Update

When I went to install the Mean Green the top of the starter contacted the block/oil pan. I´m running a stock 302 with the WH shorty headers. I clocked the starter two holes to move the top of the starter away from the block. However, now the case of the starter blocked the top bolt hole in the starter flange. I had to loosen the allen bolts and pull the flange away from the starter and insert the bolt. Now the bolt was captured by the starter housing. The only way to tighten the bolt was with an open end wrench turning it an eighth of a turn at a time. Needless to say it took a lot of time to thighten the bolt. I hope I never have to take the starter out.

The starter works great though. If I would have know the clearance issue I might have chose a different starter."

This photo was taken from outside the inner fender and shows the top bolt that is trapped by the starter housing.

 

[904Bronco]

When I went to install the Mean Green the top of the starter contacted the block/oil pan. I´m running a stock 302 with the WH shorty headers. I clocked the starter two holes to move the top of the starter away from the block. However, now the case of the starter blocked the top bolt hole in the starter flange. I had to loosen the allen bolts and pull the flange away from the starter and insert the bolt. Now the bolt was captured by the starter housing. The only way to tighten the bolt was with an open end wrench turning it an eighth of a turn at a time. Needless to say it took a lot of time to thighten the bolt. I hope I never have to take the starter out.

The starter works great though. If I would have know the clearance issue I might have chose a different starter."

This photo was taken from outside the inner fender and shows the captured top bolt.

View attachment 405875

Thanks for sharing Skip.

I am afraid to say that there is very little left today that is a "simple" Bolt - on"

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks for posting that up Skip. Was going to do it after talking to you yesterday, but it's better with pics.
Went in the back and looked at Jim's Bronco with the MG starter and it doesn't have the issue. Sorry I didn't take a picture at the time, but got sidetracked and also spent some time trying to figure out what the difference was.
Both similar engines (302 and 351w), both with WH shorty headers, both with stock frames.
Two differences I could see:
One difference is the oil pan, but seeing pics of Steed's pan (just a stock one) doesn't look like the pan would be an issue. Jim's is a fancy schmancy baffled affair with bumpouts and all. Still didn't have any trouble hitting the pan.
The other difference, and perhaps this is the biggest difference, is that Steed has an automatic I think, while Jim's is a manual trans.
I didn't have an auto version on the shelf to compare to the manual unfortunately.

The top bolt like it Steed's pic was readily accessible with the usual long extension. Maybe a wobble joint would help, but it was at least doable without resorting to a wrench. And the subsequent fraction of a turn at a time!
I actually wondered if it was clocked 180 instead of just enough, if that would work. The solenoid doesn't really care what location it's in, and there should not be any issues with hanging too low I wouldn't think. Curious about that and will look into it.

Sorry about the hassle you went through to get yours installed there Skip. Hopefully it lasts the life of the engine before you have to tackle it again! But I'm still going to check into options. I'm still going to install one in mine too, but that's down the road a ways still.

Paul

 

[gddyap]

Aren't the heads higher on a 351w? That would move the headers up a little. Might be enough difference. I didn't have any problems installing a PMGR on my 351w with WH shorty headers. For bolts like that, try using a crow foot wrench if you have one. You might get a 1/4 turn instead of 1/8.

 

[MarsChariot]

70 Steed, since you have clocked the starter to the point that the case interferes with one bolt, why not clock it 180 degrees and gain the benefit of putting the starter body far away from the exhaust? One bolt will still need to be installed before securing the clocked position. Like I said, I did not have header interference with the 71, but whatever headers I have on the 76, they appear to be lower and create a problem with clearance. The beauty of the MG starter is that you can clock it and you get a starter that has an extended life as well. Most important, with the MG I no longer cringe when I get back to the Bronco at the end of the day while in some God-foresaken middle of nowhere and wonder if it will be the day the starter finally decided to die.