Fishing with several questions

[jlylec]

So this is an email I just sent to the guy who helped me swap the drivetrain in my EB. I figured I'd throw it up here and see what you guys think too. None of this stuff is too major (hopefully!). I think it's probably normal tweaking on a bunch of new and modded parts.

For reference so my questions make sense this is what we did:

1. swapped original 302 with a mildly built 351w (running Holley Truck Avenger 670 carb...was supposed to be TBI...long story)
2. swapped original C4 with an NV3550 (rebuilt to correct an issue with 2nd to 3rd shifting...supposedly this is better than new) and installed Centerforce II clutch
3. rebuilt D20 with Teralows and twin sticks
4. new brakes and brake lines
5. rebuilt axles completely with 4.56s, lunchbox lockers, and chromo shafts

1. I got the new radiator in and flushed the system once with water before refilling with coolant and running. She's running pretty well and doesn't seem to get TOO hot but certainly doesn't sit in the middle of the gauge. Runs up to 215ish and then down to 180 or so and then back and forth like a see saw over a minute or two. Should I worry about this? Should it sit closer to a single temp? Anything I should do to fix this? New thermostat, etc.

2. I bled the brakes. The master cylinder has 2 sections and the rear section was bone dry. The front was pretty dark. I filled the whole thing before bleeding and got a fair amount of air out of a couple of the corners. Not so much out of the others. Should I expect more air? Maybe I didn't do it enough. There was an obvious difference in brake feel after this. And the peddle actually dropped a little so killed 2 birds! The brakes feel almost TOO hard now though. Do you think I should invest in one of those bleeder vacuum things instead of the old skool way I did it with just a bottle and tube? Have a pro look at them?

3. The transmission won't stay in first. It pops out unless I hold it in place. Is this an easy fix? The shifter feels kind of "rattley" for lack of a better description. Like it's not real tight in each gear. Not sure if this is a linkage thing or what. The transmission being rebuilt and not an old design I would think it would be tighter. Any thoughts on this?

4. The clutch doesn't feel like it's fully engaging. Like it's only 75% released when the peddle is completely released. I'm guessing this is just an adjustment thing, but I wanted to check with you before I started dicking with it in case you know it's fully engaging, etc. It's driving like a truck that needs a new clutch. Spinning on too much power, etc.

5. I swapped the ignition tumbler and the starter is still sticking. Did you keep the shims in? Do you think I need new/more shims? Something else?

6. After driving for a bit and shutting off for only 5-10min (getting gas for example) it's flooded. Researching this a bit it seems like it may be an issue with the fuel pump pushing too much fuel and not releasing the pressure fast enough on shut off. Does this make sense or sound feasible? Between the starter and this problem getting her started is not the best situation. Once running the engine seems near perfect.

I outsourced this because at the time I didn't have the space to do all this work and wasn't sure enough of my skills/experience and it had been 15 years since my last EB (a '69 when I was 17...NEVER should have gotten rid of that truck!). I wish I had done it all myself now just so I could've learned everything inside and out. I'm certain I could've now that I'm messing with everything so don't hold back. I can take it!

 

[blubuckaroo]

I've seen that same temperature swing when the thermostat is installed backwards.
It sounds like your clutch adjustment needs to be backed off. You should have about 3/4" free play at the fork. Sometimes when you replace the old Borg & Beck style clutch with a diaphragm type like yours, you have to back off the clutch pedal bump stop to get enough travel to completely engage and disengage. That drives my obsessive compulsive nature crazy because the brake and clutch pedal will have to be at different heights.

 

[jlylec]

I've seen that same temperature swing when the thermostat is installed backwards.
It sounds like your clutch adjustment needs to be backed off. You should have about 3/4" free play at the fork. Sometimes when you replace the old Borg & Beck style clutch with a diaphragm type like yours, you have to back off the clutch pedal bump stop to get enough travel to completely engage and disengage. That drives my obsessive compulsive nature crazy because the brake and clutch pedal will have to be at different heights.

Thanks man! I'm going to go ahead and replace the thermostat and flush the system again. Maybe there's an air pocket or something.

Clutch definitely needs some adjustment. I'm going to mess with it this weekend. Hopefully it's pretty straight forward. I don't like different height pedals either!

 

[PaveBronco]

3. The transmission won't stay in first. It pops out unless I hold it in place. Is this an easy fix? The shifter feels kind of "rattley" for lack of a better description. Like it's not real tight in each gear. Not sure if this is a linkage thing or what. The transmission being rebuilt and not an old design I would think it would be tighter. Any thoughts on this?

Well, this could be any number of things from who did the work, what parts were used, to shifter contacting the body. I’d check the easy stuff, check for loose bolts, from bell housing to transfer case, and cross member. If you got it rebuilt, you should have them fix the issue.

 

[69red]

put the front end of the truck on ramps when you flush the rad to help get the air out.

if you didn't, I'd pump fluid thru the brakes until it is nice and clear out of the bleeders. you don't want that old fluid in the lines.

what kind of starter do you have? if you have a new, high torque starter, it sounds like its wired wrong.

 

[jlylec]

put the front end of the truck on ramps when you flush the rad to help get the air out.

if you didn't, I'd pump fluid thru the brakes until it is nice and clear out of the bleeders. you don't want that old fluid in the lines.

what kind of starter do you have? if you have a new, high torque starter, it sounds like its wired wrong.

Good advice. Thanks man. I actually put the REAR end up when flushing the radiator thinking it would runout easier. Didn't think about air getting trapped. I'll jack the front next time. Although with the chunk off center it's kinda hard to jack just the front. I'll figure it out.

I don't think I bled the brakes enough. I'm going to pick up one of the vacuum bleeders so I can just suck all the old shit out. The last time I had my 7 year old pumping for me.

I have a new starter but have no clue if it's high torque. I know I paid like 200 for it at advanced. Basically it doesn't disengage quick enough so it have to jiggle the key to near off to disengage the starter. Never had a car do this. Guy told me it was the ignition switch but I swapped this and it still does it. How could it be wired wrong? It's pretty simple wiring, no?

Thanks again!

 

[bobtail]

I have a new starter but have no clue if it's high torque. I know I paid like 200 for it at advanced. Basically it doesn't disengage quick enough so it have to jiggle the key to near off to disengage the starter. Never had a car do this. Guy told me it was the ignition switch but I swapped this and it still does it. How could it be wired wrong? It's pretty simple wiring, no?

Thanks again![/QUOTE]

I'm having the same problem. Replaced cylinder and ignition switch (orielley's). The new switch sticks.

 

[69red]

the old starters weigh are big and fat and weigh a rediculous amount, the new ones are light enough to be lifted in place easily with one hand. the old starter only has one wire to it, the new have two.

this is a good writeup with pix.
http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223711&highlight=gear+reduction+starter

if you hook the wires up wrong, the starter is slow to disengage and will drag.

 

[jlylec]

the old starters weigh are big and fat and weigh a rediculous amount, the new ones are light enough to be lifted in place easily with one hand. the old starter only has one wire to it, the new have two.

this is a good writeup with pix.
http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223711&highlight=gear+reduction+starter

if you hook the wires up wrong, the starter is slow to disengage and will drag.

thanks this is great info...going to look into this tomorrow. I hope it's wired wrong because that seems like an easy fix!

 

[jlylec]

1. I got the new radiator in and flushed the system once with water before refilling with coolant and running. She's running pretty well and doesn't seem to get TOO hot but certainly doesn't sit in the middle of the gauge. Runs up to 215ish and then down to 180 or so and then back and forth like a see saw over a minute or two. Should I worry about this? Should it sit closer to a single temp? Anything I should do to fix this? New thermostat, etc.

I'm going to reflush the system with the front end up on blocks this time and check the thermostat and make sure it's in correctly. Just got back from advanced and forgot to buy a new thermostat so that sucks. What temp do you guys run for thermostats in a 351w?

2. I bled the brakes. The master cylinder has 2 sections and the rear section was bone dry. The front was pretty dark. I filled the whole thing before bleeding and got a fair amount of air out of a couple of the corners. Not so much out of the others. Should I expect more air? Maybe I didn't do it enough. There was an obvious difference in brake feel after this. And the peddle actually dropped a little so killed 2 birds! The brakes feel almost TOO hard now though. Do you think I should invest in one of those bleeder vacuum things instead of the old skool way I did it with just a bottle and tube? Have a pro look at them?

I picked up one of those vacuum bleeders and another big bottle of brake fluid. I'm going to pull a ton through tomorrow and really bleed the hell out of them. Driver's rear, Pass rear, Driver's front, Pass front. Hopefully this will do it. Weird that the brakes feel HARD though right now.

3. The transmission won't stay in first. It pops out unless I hold it in place. Is this an easy fix? The shifter feels kind of "rattley" for lack of a better description. Like it's not real tight in each gear. Not sure if this is a linkage thing or what. The transmission being rebuilt and not an old design I would think it would be tighter. Any thoughts on this?

Going to pull up the boot and inspect hardware. This shouldn't be an issue as there is no linkage.

4. The clutch doesn't feel like it's fully engaging. Like it's only 75% released when the pedal is completely released. I'm guessing this is just an adjustment thing, but I wanted to check with you before I started dicking with it in case you know it's fully engaging, etc. It's driving like a truck that needs a new clutch. Spinning on too much power, etc.

Still need to look into the adjustments on this. Hopefully it's easy enough to figure out.

5. I swapped the ignition tumbler and the starter is still sticking. Did you keep the shims in? Do you think I need new/more shims? Something else?

Hopefully the wiring on the starter is wrong and this is an easy fix.

6. After driving for a bit and shutting off for only 5-10min (getting gas for example) it's flooded. Researching this a bit it seems like it may be an issue with the fuel pump pushing too much fuel and not releasing the pressure fast enough on shut off. Does this make sense or sound feasible? Between the starter and this problem getting her started is not the best situation. Once running the engine seems near perfect.

Turns out the electric fuel pump may be pushing too much so I picked up an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Easy fix if it works!


Will be a busy Saturday, but if all goes well (never does!) it should be very productive and satisfying. Wish me luck!