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ARB RD119 vs RD55B

lars

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Been here awhile
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
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NorCal flatlands
I have an RD55B in my super duper hyper-extra strong Currie rear axle housing with 3-1/4" tubes (no longer available), containing said rear diff. Just had an air line (the one that goes from the diff casting port to the locker) fail after 23 years. What a mess. Fixed it, including making some custom fittings, in 5 hours flat today and now it's 1/4" air line.

Anyway, this is a ping at @jamesroney. I have no intention of "upgrading" if that's what you call it, since my ancient locker still works, but I reserve the right to change my mind.

SO. What is wrong with my RD55B and why would I want an RD119? This has probably been discussed somewhere but the RD55B has been out of production for so long that the comparison is no longer relevant. I'm just curious, and @jamesroney you are the man to talk to about such things.

And yes if I was starting from scratch I'd almost certainly go with a D60 and the matching ARB. But I don't want to.
 

jamesroney

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Bronco Guru
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Sep 11, 2007
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Fremont, CA
Well, here we go. You really can't get there from here. You have to go back there to get there so you can get here. So let's start there.

In that beginning, ARB made RD55B. 31 spline, for a 9 inch, robust design, etc. Then they rested, got drunk, woke up, needed money and said...Hey! we are selling a shit-pot of these 9 inch 31 spline ARB's but we need a 35 spline solution. And the RD99 was born. But crap! Those shafts are huge, and need a 3.25 bearing. And bigger side gears. Someone drink another Foster's and hand me a pencil and eraser. In order to fit the larger side gear, the collar engagement depth was reduced from .150 to .075. Because... "good enough." Problem is, when you couple .075 depth with bevel tooth you get less than .075. Add some case flex, and some horsepower, and they slip. Not often, sometimes not even noticeable, but yeah, they cam themselves out. So what to do?

Simple. Increase air pressure. But by now, Rock racing is happening, and the 9 inch is the axle of preference, and yeah, they actually slip a lot. But only when you need them. And they snap right back. But race teams are complaining, and everybody is mad. Because when they slip, and then grab, other things start to break. So the fix was to increase the collar depth. Another Fosters, and another pencil. Let's go half again back. So now the engagement depth is .120. But with a longer sliding collar, and a deeper gear, you need more physical space. OK, we'll move the air piston to the opposite side, and put in a giant spring apply, and call it a "competition only" solution. And the RD99CE was born.

Now the RD99 is in existence, and we need to cost reduce and why would we have two completely different designs for the 9 inch. That's just silly. Let's upgrade by downgrading. We will take the bulletproof, excellent, capable RD55B and replace it with the vastly inferior RD119. And no one will complain, because no serious person would ever run a 31 spline axle, and if they do, we can recommend the RD99 and the world is fine. Anyone that lived this knows is BS, but here we are. (where is @nvrstuk he lived it)

So the evolution of the drive axle from 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 to 1-5/16 to 1-1/2 brought us to 1970. (yeah, I know the Dodge power wagon got 1.5 inch axles in 1957, and the Dana 60 got 1.5 inch axles for the hemi, but those are 23 spline, and you don't get the good stuff until 1970 in the Super Track Pack Dana 60. The fact that every car under 10 seconds in the 1/4 mile is running 35 spline on 28 inch tires seems to be lost on the Bronco crowd. So yeah, keep your 31 spline shafts. Fact is, that for rock bouncing on 33's and 1/4 mile ET's in the 9's, you want 1.5 inch, 35 spline shafts.

Now before you say: "but James...didn't they reduce the engagement on the RD116 versus the RD35 on the Dana 60?" I have to say: "Don't care, I run the old RD35's" And yes, they did, but the collar and gear is about twice as big. So apples and oranges.

You are lucky. The RD55B is superior. And if you are stuck with 31 spline axles, you should keep it. And if it ever leaks, you can use a standard Aerospace Viton quad-ring in the ARB o-ring slot, and it should last forever.

Now what was the question?
 
OP
OP
lars

lars

Contributor
Been here awhile
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
3,333
Loc.
NorCal flatlands
Well, here we go. You really can't get there from here. You have to go back there to get there so you can get here. So let's start there.

In that beginning, ARB made RD55B. 31 spline, for a 9 inch, robust design, etc. Then they rested, got drunk, woke up, needed money and said...Hey! we are selling a shit-pot of these 9 inch 31 spline ARB's but we need a 35 spline solution. And the RD99 was born. But crap! Those shafts are huge, and need a 3.25 bearing. And bigger side gears. Someone drink another Foster's and hand me a pencil and eraser. In order to fit the larger side gear, the collar engagement depth was reduced from .150 to .075. Because... "good enough." Problem is, when you couple .075 depth with bevel tooth you get less than .075. Add some case flex, and some horsepower, and they slip. Not often, sometimes not even noticeable, but yeah, they cam themselves out. So what to do?

Simple. Increase air pressure. But by now, Rock racing is happening, and the 9 inch is the axle of preference, and yeah, they actually slip a lot. But only when you need them. And they snap right back. But race teams are complaining, and everybody is mad. Because when they slip, and then grab, other things start to break. So the fix was to increase the collar depth. Another Fosters, and another pencil. Let's go half again back. So now the engagement depth is .120. But with a longer sliding collar, and a deeper gear, you need more physical space. OK, we'll move the air piston to the opposite side, and put in a giant spring apply, and call it a "competition only" solution. And the RD99CE was born.

Now the RD99 is in existence, and we need to cost reduce and why would we have two completely different designs for the 9 inch. That's just silly. Let's upgrade by downgrading. We will take the bulletproof, excellent, capable RD55B and replace it with the vastly inferior RD119. And no one will complain, because no serious person would ever run a 31 spline axle, and if they do, we can recommend the RD99 and the world is fine. Anyone that lived this knows is BS, but here we are. (where is @nvrstuk he lived it)

So the evolution of the drive axle from 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 to 1-5/16 to 1-1/2 brought us to 1970. (yeah, I know the Dodge power wagon got 1.5 inch axles in 1957, and the Dana 60 got 1.5 inch axles for the hemi, but those are 23 spline, and you don't get the good stuff until 1970 in the Super Track Pack Dana 60. The fact that every car under 10 seconds in the 1/4 mile is running 35 spline on 28 inch tires seems to be lost on the Bronco crowd. So yeah, keep your 31 spline shafts. Fact is, that for rock bouncing on 33's and 1/4 mile ET's in the 9's, you want 1.5 inch, 35 spline shafts.

Now before you say: "but James...didn't they reduce the engagement on the RD116 versus the RD35 on the Dana 60?" I have to say: "Don't care, I run the old RD35's" And yes, they did, but the collar and gear is about twice as big. So apples and oranges.

You are lucky. The RD55B is superior. And if you are stuck with 31 spline axles, you should keep it. And if it ever leaks, you can use a standard Aerospace Viton quad-ring in the ARB o-ring slot, and it should last forever.

Now what was the question?
Lol... you answered it, you just forgot that you did by the time you were finished typing.

In the 20-odd years I've been running my current rear axle with said RB55B on 35" tires, I've never had a failure. But I'm fairly easy on equipment. I like to go fast at times, or I used to, but I can say with a straight face that I never once sidestepped the clutch when I had manual transmissions, and have yet to mash the throttle with my current 4R70W. I just don't like breaking stuff very much. Recently I replaced the SET20 axle shaft bearings. Splines looked like new. That's a visual inspection only and yes I realize that there are NDT methods out there that I did not avail myself of but I'm not lying awake in fear at night of axle breakage.

Considering that I almost certainly won't get another 20 years of use out of my Bronco- due to my age, if not political situations over which I have no control- I think I'll be alright.

Anyway, I appreciate your explanations, thanks very much. And if for some reason I decide I just have to have a Dana 60 with an ARB I will come looking for you.
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
10,596
Loc.
PNW
Yeah... "nvrstuk he lived it..." lol but also :(

Sounds like you were recollecting stories about my dramas with 9" ARB equipped rear ends. Only thing that I can think of is the RD99CE "Comp model" is always engaged and uses air to unlock it.

ARB ... before they sharpened their pencils while downing those 24 oz cans of Fosters USED to make dependable quality lockers but as Steve has mentioned and others here also, that quality control has gone down the sewer.

Like Lars, I've never side stepped the clutch... I don't like repairing stuff when I don't have to, but I use the power I've got often and since moving away from 9" ARB's and thin walled 9" housings to the 14 bolt that I SHOULD HAVE DONE in the '90's.... I think I'm doing pretty good. BTW, where was Steve back in the EBML days??? lol

Well said James!
 

Yeller

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Bronco Guru
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Mar 27, 2012
Messages
7,688
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
Always running a 14bolt or a Rockwell is probably why I have a throttle head reputation, although most of that was from the days of running a very tired TBI 350, if a gentle bump was needed it needed a run at it lol
 
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