Improving Safety - Shoulder Harnesses & Lap Belt

[chuzie]

Looks like I will be getting rid of my 4 points now. Damn!

 

[chuzie]

So can I safely use a 6 point without having anti-sub holes in the seat?

 

[markw]

That Corbeau harness looks like the BASS retractable 4 point we have in the 182. Difference is $1300 each SIDE for the BASS harness.

 

[Hozr]

That Corbeau harness looks like the BASS retractable 4 point we have in the 182. Difference is $1300 each SIDE for the BASS harness.

Ding ding ding! Winner! Had them in the last 182RG I flew.

I'm not looking for any type of official opinion... only your thoughts on the safety of the Corbeau system. (Or to be more direct, do you see anything that you would be uncomfortable with if it were you?) I agree that a 5-point or 6-point system would be safer... it's use would have more limitations.

Sorry, I understand your question now! I would absolutely run those Corbeau belts. I can almost guarantee you will see them OEM in cars in the future. "Safe" is all about relativity and driving within your vehicles systems. I'd rock those anywhere in town and even moderate wheeling without question. Get into the hardcore wheeling or racing and I'd go to full harnesses.

I actually think those are the "4 point" harnesses some of the OEM's certified for aftermarket use. I can't find the link right now though.

 

[Hozr]

So can I safely use a 6 point without having anti-sub holes in the seat?

"Safely" is a taboo word in my world but to answer yes, the MFG's have recommended mounting of 6 point harnesses that don't require sub belt holes in the seat. Get to keep the butt warmers now!

 

[Jeff10]

Hi Andy,

Sorry, I understand your question now! I would absolutely run those Corbeau belts. I can almost guarantee you will see them OEM in cars in the future. "Safe" is all about relativity and driving within your vehicles systems. I'd rock those anywhere in town and even moderate wheeling without question. Get into the hardcore wheeling or racing and I'd go to full harnesses.

I actually think those are the "4 point" harnesses some of the OEM's certified for aftermarket use. I can't find the link right now though.

Awesome!

That's what I was hoping to hear. I know that opinions are relative. Most of my professional life involves fire safety/protection. I find myself clarifying most of my opinions. No matter how something is stated, there are no absolutes, and sometimes folks understand.

I think we'll give the Corbeau system a try.

Thanks again for all of your input. It's really appreciated.

Take Care,

Jeff

 

[Hozr]

No problem, give us an update when you hammer it all out!

 

[Jeff10]

Hey,

Still looking at a plan.

Because there is a limited distance (possibly 1') between the back of the seat through with the belt straps pass and the roll cage cross brace I am doubtful about being able to mount the retracting device that close.

I've been looking through pictures on the web; but, I really haven't come up with anything that shows much detail.

I have seen examples of the single strap running over the top of the cross brace and then vertically down. supposedly the retractor is mounted closer to the ground. (Picture the harness belt (after two harnesses transition into a single belt) passing over the top of the cross brace and straight down. The force from the belt to the from the belt at the point where it passes over the bar, where the bar changes direction.

I guess that's really the only question... where to mount the retractor. Where will it provide maximum benefit for the occupant?

Anyone installed one of these in a Bronco who can share pictures?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Ethansdad73]

Hey,

Still looking at a plan.

Because there is a limited distance (possibly 1') between the back of the seat through with the belt straps pass and the roll cage cross brace I am doubtful about being able to mount the retracting device that close.

I've been looking through pictures on the web; but, I really haven't come up with anything that shows much detail.

I have seen examples of the single strap running over the top of the cross brace and then vertically down. supposedly the retractor is mounted closer to the ground. (Picture the harness belt (after two harnesses transition into a single belt) passing over the top of the cross brace and straight down. The force from the belt to the from the belt at the point where it passes over the bar, where the bar changes direction.

I guess that's really the only question... where to mount the retractor. Where will it provide maximum benefit for the occupant?

Anyone installed one of these in a Bronco who can share pictures?

Thanks,

Jeff

Read somewhere someone was having issues with them retracting well and decided not to use them. May want to search them on here.

 

[Hozr]

As long as the direction of pull is 20 degrees or so to hoizon <- does that make sense?

If you use a harness bar to change direction just make sure the harness bar is in line with the belt slots or shoulders. It isn't critical where the retactor is mounted as long as it is secure and will function in the direction it is mounted. Some retractors only work in certain orientations.

See pic below - While no perfect it will work as designed since the direction change is in line with the slots. You could even mount closer to the back of the rear seat. (E.T.A.) This install cracks me up for several reasons. Extra long webbing, not trippled through the locking bars, no cotter pins in the clips, WTF is that extra flat bar behind the driver seat? All these issues could be avoided by just wrapping the harness around the bar and threading them properly. K.I.S.S.

 

[Hozr]

Doing some more research. Looks like the 3'rd point does not have to be centered on the seat since it has a load equalizer for the shoulder straps. you could theoretically mount it to a rear cage against the fender wall then. Good mounting info middle of page

http://www.americanmuscle.com/corbeau-2in-3pt-harness-install.html

 

[Hozr]

Mounted to the cage down-bar below the gas strut seems stronger to me as well as a better angle. I'd love to see Corbeau's instructions but I can't find them. It also looks as if a lot of folks don't use a harness bar since it is retractable like an OEM 3 point. Hmmm......I'm learning!

 

[Jeff10]

Hi,

Read somewhere someone was having issues with them retracting well and decided not to use them. May want to search them on here.

I'll do some more searching.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Jeff10]

Hi Andy,

Mounted to the cage down-bar below the gas strut seems stronger to me as well as a better angle. I'd love to see Corbeau's instructions but I can't find them. It also looks as if a lot of folks don't use a harness bar since it is retractable like an OEM 3 point. Hmmm......I'm learning!

I had asked Corbeau for installation instructions. The two attached .pdfs are what I was emailed. Most of the information related to this system is included in what you posted via the link.

I'm really not comfortable with the design. Unless there's a proven way to route the belts over the cross brace and install the retractors closer to floor level, I just see it hanging out in space. I understand they can be offset from the effective center of the seat; but, too much offset and the forces won't be equal on both shoulder belts.

Fixed harnesses around the cross-brace (similar to what you were saying about the last picture you posted) and an anti-sub belt may be the better method... or a going with a typical 3-point restraint.

I almost ordered the system we have been discussing... now I'm glad that I hesitated.

Thanks again for the input.

Jeff

 

[markw]

Seems to me this would be better mounted high above the shoulders. I suppose the slots in the seat keep the shoulder straps from crushing down on the shoulders. I wonder if they can be mounted like the BASS system?

 

[Jeff10]

Hey,

I'm not normally successful finding something quickly in the storage unit; but, this morning I was.

I found the anti-submarine belts that the previous owner never installed. Small victory.

After all the discussion, I really think the best thing to do is properly install the shoulder harnesses to harness bar and install the anti-sub belts. It's definitely the least cost approach... and safe. Maybe a pain sometimes; but, safe.

I'll continue to look for the 3-point systems, too.

Jeff

 

[Hozr]

It is strongly recommended that the shoulder harnesses be fitted as close to horizontal as possible. It is
a must that the angle of the shoulder harness does not exceed 45 degrees in relation to the theoretical
horizontal axis of the mounting points. Never anchor straight down behind the back. (See diagram for
recommended anchorage points)

I swear this stuff is written by lawyers...There are a whole lot of words here to say mount it how you want and it's not our responsibility. The reason they don't want it mounted straight down is due to the picture I posted earlier with the blue belts. If that seat mechanism fails there is nothing stopping forward movement of the occupant. There is no "solid" restraint point as the seat back and belt will all fold forward (or backward). That is what the above statement is "TRYING" to say.

Good deal on the sub belts! I actually found using the 3 lower points pretty comfortable although not real smart!