Ram/Hydro assist combination...slow steering when rpm's are low

nvrstuk · Mar 29, 2019

Wondering how many have noticed how much slower your steering is, or is it slower (at lower rpm's) when running a combination of hydroboost and ram assist? Absolutely can't even notice it's on when driving down the road at 20mph or more.

I finally got mine on this suspension and with a PSC pump, Astro hydroboost, 1 5/8" PSC 8" ram i can't turn the steering wheel fast enough when I'm doing 5-10 mph when the engine is idling or close to it. At 1500 rpm it's fine but DANG, I barely missed my backhoe driving around the back of the barn...

Sure appreciate others feedback...

bronconut73 · Mar 29, 2019

Smaller pulley

Bronco Brian · Mar 29, 2019

bronconut73 said:
Smaller pulley

Who Makes a smaller pulley for the Explorer ?

bronconut73 · Mar 29, 2019

Dang it,

hoping he was running a Saggy

nvrstuk · Mar 29, 2019

Not a Sag...also, I run at 5800 rpm for extended times...pretty sure undersizing the pulley will create some issues at that rpm?? Gotta be some major heat build up at least? Not positive, just typing out loud...

Scoop · Mar 30, 2019

So you added hydroboost AFTER you had ram assist and noticed a difference?

nvrstuk · Mar 30, 2019

Ram after the hydro....

Is there a hydroboost unit that allows more gpm thru it or do you think its strictly a pump issue?

Several threads about Van reworking the guts of the hydroboost to allow less restriction so loss of brake effectiveness isnt as noticeable when turning...

Curious if others have or notice this issue

garberz · Mar 30, 2019

I would start with porting the Hydroboost. There’s a few builders that offer that option. Spending the money on a high volume pump, only to have that volume restricted is obviously counter productive. I don’t have ram assist, but certainly understand the demands of running hydroboost with aired down tires.

Mark

Boss Hugg · Mar 30, 2019

I'm dealing with this issue. I was thinking that the small steering wheel I was running was just making it hard to turn as fast as I wanted. I went to a bigger wheel last week and the effort it takes to turn is definitely reduced. However, there is a definite restriction somewhere making it impossible to turn the wheel fast enough in parking lot situations where you back out and need to quickly go from one direction to the other. So I guess I'll be considering Garberz's idea on porting the HB.

nvrstuk · Mar 31, 2019

I've got the name of Van (I will look up his company name) who works for a place that "open's up" hydroboost units for more flow...$450 bucks...."wow", was my response! Then I asked him how it works...

Course he said it worked great....I'm still stuck on the $450 buck figure... : (

So I've called a couple buddies today who both said they had the same low rpm hard turning issue and one has tried the smaller diameter pulley to help increase pump speed at low rpm which he didn't notice ANY difference and the other said he did the Exploder pump mod and it made a world of difference. The first guy later tried the Exploder mod and he said it made a big difference also...

Looks like I will eventually go with the Exploder pump and modify it...I've never been extremely pleased with my PSC pump...supposed to have 1500psi and I checked it last year at 1350...who knows what the gpm flow is...

CA Monkey · Mar 31, 2019

i run the stock exploder pump and i experience the same issue. I think like most things, you get used to it and adjust your driving so its not as big of a problem. That being said, I plan on doing the mod and really hope it helps. I also dont have hydroboost.... so that's probably not going to help you porting that.
My buddies run modified sag pumps and have tried smaller pulleys.... nothing has worked so far really.

jmhend · Mar 31, 2019

nvrstuk said:
I've got the name of Van (I will look up his company name) who works for a place that "open's up" hydroboost units for more flow...$450 bucks...."wow", was my response! Then I asked him how it works...

Course he said it worked great....I'm still stuck on the $450 buck figure... : (

So I've called a couple buddies today who both said they had the same low rpm hard turning issue and one has tried the smaller diameter pulley to help increase pump speed at low rpm which he didn't notice ANY difference and the other said he did the Exploder pump mod and it made a world of difference. The first guy later tried the Exploder mod and he said it made a big difference also...

Looks like I will eventually go with the Exploder pump and modify it...I've never been extremely pleased with my PSC pump...supposed to have 1500psi and I checked it last year at 1350...who knows what the gpm flow is...

Have you called PSC? I have heard several complaints about the explorer pump (can't comment on the mod). I do know the later 90's E350 pump has better flow, I have a buddy with a Ram, hydroboost (37" tires) and has never had a problem.

good luck

nvrstuk · Mar 31, 2019

I have not called PSC, but with this pump before the ram was added it was beyond difficult to turn the wheel with it sitting on a concrete slab with the tires aired down...always been hard-even before hydroboost. It has 1350 psi...not the 1500+ that was advertised. I'm pretty sure they don't have many people checking the pressure...

I will modify my driving style until I fix it...

I do a lot of extremely tight trail driving between trees...I can't imagine not being able to turn the strg wheel as fast as I want/need to... I'll figure it out evntually but my ps pump and York OBA bracket are custom so it might be a while.
Thx

ntsqd · Mar 31, 2019

A good friend of mine who owns a 4x4 repair shop recently commented when we were talking about steering rams that people who do the porting of the box themselves sometimes pick the wrong spot. Where they pick works, but the box ports themselves can't flow enough at low pressure to keep up. In some cases they can't flow enough at all.

This same friend will not install a steering ram on a street driven vehicle that is bigger than 1.5" Said that the bigger rams take too much volume for the pump to be able to support at every speed.

Look at the plumbing. Are there any forged 90° fittings? Not the formed tube 90°'s, the forged & drilled type. Tom Lee was death on anyone who used the forged type in one of "his" systems.

nvrstuk · Mar 31, 2019

Both fittings in and out of the hydroboost are 90deg fittings and one on the box is...

Does McMaster have pipe thread fittings on a formed tube 90deg fitting with AN fitting on the other end-example: coming out of my box if I followed Tom Lee's recommendation I would need a 90deg pipe fitting on one end but in a formed tube with AN fitting on the other end...

Makes sense...a restriction is just that. All my hose is 3/8" and my ram is 1 1/2" as I remember guys had problems on the road with 1 3/4" and 2" rams back in the early B-Fix days saying they couldn't change lanes fast enough or had trouble turning sharp into a parking lot...since I DD so much I didn't want those inherent safety issues so 1 1/2" it was.

Boss Hugg · Apr 1, 2019

nvrstuk said:
Does McMaster have pipe thread fittings on a formed tube 90deg fitting with AN fitting on the other end-example: coming out of my box if I followed Tom Lee's recommendation I would need a 90deg pipe fitting on one end but in a formed tube with AN fitting on the other end...

Your best bet is to put 90* fittings on the hoses with straight NPT/JIC adapters on the box. And NO aluminum!

ntsqd · Apr 1, 2019

^^
Agree. For the return hoses I use my old stand-by, Push-Lock/Barb-tite hose ends.

Don't forget the fittings in and out of the cooler.

However the adapters at the box and pump are likely AN/JIC on one end and Inverted Flare or O-Ring Bump (if late Saginaw based) on the other.

JWMcCrary · Apr 1, 2019

I added ram assist 3 years after I went hydroboost, that was about 8+ years ago. Running a C4 and at idle it is very slow and if in a big bind will stop/stall the steering, bump the throttle and all is well. I've gotten so used to it that I don't even notice it anymore.

nvrstuk · Apr 1, 2019

My issue is being able to turn the wheel fast enough to avoid the rock or tree that is rapidly approaching (at idle speed)-- sometimes you need to turn the wheel quickly when idling...

It's definitely flow...only at idle or under 1200rpms approx. I wish I knew the output pump curve...do I have 1gpm at 800rpm? Then at 1200rpm I gave 4gpm?

I'll never know...and is the issue an in-line restriction that ONLY higher flow/pressure resolves or ?

ntsqd · Apr 1, 2019

Once any restrictions are removed and you're confident that the box internal porting isn't causing the problem, then can the pump's output volume be adjusted up?

What happens when need to steer and brake at the same time?

EDIT: I notice both a 1.625 bore and a 1.5 bore ram are mentioned. The volume difference could be significant.

Ram/Hydro assist combination...slow steering when rpm's are low

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