170 - 200 swap?

[Gas Pig]

I’m trying to help someone do a 200 swap for a 66’ 170. I was under the impression that it’s was a direct swap over but apparently it isn’t.

It appears that the flywheel bolts pattern is different from the 170 to the 200 which didn’t totally surprise me but what did was the 170 bell housing doesn’t match up? At a glance they look the same but once you take a closer look they are a bit different. Has anyone run into this before?

Thanks Jeff

 

[1strodeo]

I’m trying to help someone do a 200 swap for a 66’ 170. I was under the impression that it’s was a direct swap over but apparently it isn’t.

It appears that the flywheel bolts pattern is different from the 170 to the 200 which didn’t totally surprise me but what did was the 170 bell housing doesn’t match up? At a glance they look the same but once you take a closer look they are a bit different. Has anyone run into this before?

Thanks Jeff

Direct swap has always been my understanding as well...I have a 66 Mustang 200 on a stand in the garage if you need a comparison pic, but it does not have a bell housing

 

[blubuckaroo]

You need to invest in this book. All that research has been done.
https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/the-ford-falcon-six-cylinder-performance-handbook

 

[Quick & Dirty]

'81-'83 200 from a fox body has a different bell housing pattern. Known as the "big bell" 200. I think the flywheel is the standard small 6 though. Heads are supposed to flow better than early heads as well.

The 250 has a small block v8/ 300 six bell pattern. The flywheel is the same as the 300, which is small block bolt pattern, but neutral balance.

 

[Gas Pig]

'81-'83 200 from a fox body has a different bell housing pattern. Known as the "big bell" 200. I think the flywheel is the standard small 6 though. Heads are supposed to flow better than early heads as well.

The 250 has a small block v8/ 300 six bell pattern. The flywheel is the same as the 300, which is small block bolt pattern, but neutral balance.

Actually it’s a ‘66 200 and that is what’s throwing me. I thought all pre ‘80 200’s has the same bell housing bolt pattern as 144 and 170. I know the 250 and 300 and the bolt pattern as the 289, 302, and 350W.

I’ll try to post pics tomorrow.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, this is a direct bolt in swap, and I just did it in my 66.
Both blocks should be drilled for the early 144 small bell and the larger later bell for the 9" clutch. You should see 4 bolt holes on the back of the water jacket, below the deck surface.
My new 200 was from a Mustang, and had no flywheel. The Bronco flywheel went right on. Be aware it only goes on one way, and you need thread sealer because the bolt holes enter the crank case. Of course the Bronco engine spacer plate goes on before the flywheel.
My 200 was from an automatic because the ball from the Z bar was not there and the spot was painted over.
It may be your replacement engine is an early 144 or 170. These early engines only had the holes drilled for the small bell. If the replacement engine has only 3 freeze out plugs on the passenger side it is not a 200. All the 200 s have 5 freeze out plugs and 6 main bearings.
Check out Fordsix.com
Good luck

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, after thinking about my swap I just remembered that the dowel pins on the back of the 200 Mustang block did not line up with my Bronco 3 speed cast iron bell housing.

When I went to put the original Bronco engine spacer plate on the block I had to move at least 1 (maybe both) of the dowel pins.

I also had to enlarge 1 of the bolt holes on the engine spacer plate slightly.

Use the Bronco engine spacer plate to figure out what to do on the back of the new block.

Also you need the Bronco oil pan and oil pickup.

Good luck

Now I remember knocking out a dowel pin on I think the left side of the block with a punch and moving it to a different hole.
the other dowel pin was a blind hole and I could not get it to budge so I ground it down flush with the block and used the dowel I could knock out of the old block.

 

[Gas Pig]

First thanks for everyone’s help and input on this.

Unfortunately I’m not there first hand helping this guy out with the swap so I’m getting the info by phone and pics. I have always thought it was a direct swap from the 170 to the 200. What it appears to me from what I have read and from what I have learned from you guys it this... Ford used two different sized bell housings on the 144 and 170. Both the 144 and 170 were drilled for both the “big bell” and the “little bell” as seen in the original 66’s 170 block picture. Now the 200 was only drilled for the “little bell”... as seen in the picture. It appears this his Bronco was equipped with the “big bell” do to the location of the dowel pin. Maybe all Broncos were equipped with a “big bell” or only if it was equipped with a heavy duty clutch???

Anyways if I find him a “small bell” and flywheel I think he is good to go. Anything I’m missing?

 

[blubuckaroo]

This issue is exactly why you see so many Vintage Fords with Chevy drivetrains.
Ford has changed their bell housing pattern so many times it's mind boggling. There are actually Ford small block bell housings with two different bolt patterns (5 & 6 bolt).
Chevy, on the other hand uses the same bell housing pattern from a Chevette to a one ton truck.
This makes engine swaps easy or difficult.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, since the replacement block is only drilled for the small bell I (personally) would stay away from it.
According to the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook, the original 200 came out in the Fairlane in 1962. They do not say how the back of the block was designed.
I have personal experience with the early 144. back in @ 1990 I was looking for a six to put into my Bronco and a friend offered me a 144 from his Falcon. I took my Bell housing and carb over and neither would fit. Both carb and bell were too big for the 144.
I found a 68 170 and used he best parts from both engines.
Good luck

 

[66 1/2 cab]

Why would you forgo the smaller bell. I was sold the 200 to replace my 170. The 200 was rebuilt and I thought it good ideal. An I wrong

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, I was offered one and my Bronco parts did not fit.
I'm not sure if the Bronco 3 speed (a 3.03 RAT or RAN in Ford tranny slang) will fit the smaller bell housing after you find it and pay for it.
I don't know if the finished length will the same as the original setup.
I seriously doubt the transfer case will bolt on to the early Ford transmission known as the 2.77 in Ford tranny slang, which will come with the bell housing.
I know the 9" clutch will not fit.
For me that is too many unknowns.
Good luck

 

[blubuckaroo]

If you're using the 144/170/200/250 six cylinder engine, this book is a valuable resource.
The book is a bit outdated, and right now there are better ignitions and also fuel injection available for these engines, but there is a lot of good part swapping research included here.
https://www.amazon.com/Ford-Falcon-Cylinder-Performance-Handbook/dp/B076H8P9N3