2.5" lift and castor shims

[BBQ BOY]

In all of my Land Cruisers, I have had to shim my the truck after a lift in order to get the truck to drive decent. That and having the drive shafts re-built. Actually, my current FJ55 hasn't required them. So, off I were to chose a wild horse 2.5" lift, has anyone had to do thes?

 

[sykanr0ng]

For Broncos there are degreed bushings for the radius arms that are made for that purpose.

It can be hard to say how many degrees you will need, power steering makes a difference.

Examples:

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/Bronco_Bushings

The other vendors carry them also.

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey BBQ BOY. What he said.
What year is your Bronco? That can have a slight effect on what degree of offset you choose. But the best way to know for sure is to take it to an alignment shop and have them give you a printout of your camber, caster and toe-in specs, as well as any others that the machine will print out. This is your baseline and will help you choose wisely grasshopper.

For instance, even with just 2.5" you might go all the way to 7 degree offset if you have a '74 or earlier. If you have a '76 or '77 on the other hand, you would go with the 4° offset bushings because you probably already have more positive caster built in to your front end than the early ones did.
If yours falls into the '74/'75 category, you could go either way. But then, that's why I always recommend a session on the rack to see just what you have.

You almost can't put too much caster into an EB, but there is a point of diminishing returns. You can put the front u-joint into a bind before you achieve a good caster number on some combinations. With just 2.5" of lift though, you're usually in the sweet spot.

And speaking of making a better driving Bronco... Don't use the old rule of thumb that you don't need a dropped pitman arm or trackbar bracket with 2.5 lifts. Certainly you don't "have to have" them, but if you want it to have the best street manners you want both. Unless you're into custom fabricating everything for the best angles. In that case, you're on your own but might not need all the off-the-shelf goodies.

And back to the shim discussion, the thickness of the rear leaf packs these days makes it a 50/50 chance of needing the tapered shims in the back. With a 3.5" lift and thick packs, it's better than 80% needing them, but with 2.5" it's all a question until the Bronco is back on the ground. Only then will you know whether you need them or not. So I recommend buying them up front, then returning them if you don't need them.

With all your fiddling with the FJ's, are you familiar with the proper angles on a double-cardan style shaft? Setup is different from the standard single-cardan style most trucks have.
Just checking...

Have fun!

Paul

 

[BBQ BOY]

Hey BBQ BOY. What he said.
What year is your Bronco? That can have a slight effect on what degree of offset you choose. But the best way to know for sure is to take it to an alignment shop and have them give you a printout of your camber, caster and toe-in specs, as well as any others that the machine will print out. This is your baseline and will help you choose wisely grasshopper.

For instance, even with just 2.5" you might go all the way to 7 degree offset if you have a '74 or earlier. If you have a '76 or '77 on the other hand, you would go with the 4° offset bushings because you probably already have more positive caster built in to your front end than the early ones did.
If yours falls into the '74/'75 category, you could go either way. But then, that's why I always recommend a session on the rack to see just what you have.

You almost can't put too much caster into an EB, but there is a point of diminishing returns. You can put the front u-joint into a bind before you achieve a good caster number on some combinations. With just 2.5" of lift though, you're usually in the sweet spot.

And speaking of making a better driving Bronco... Don't use the old rule of thumb that you don't need a dropped pitman arm or trackbar bracket with 2.5 lifts. Certainly you don't "have to have" them, but if you want it to have the best street manners you want both. Unless you're into custom fabricating everything for the best angles. In that case, you're on your own but might not need all the off-the-shelf goodies.

And back to the shim discussion, the thickness of the rear leaf packs these days makes it a 50/50 chance of needing the tapered shims in the back. With a 3.5" lift and thick packs, it's better than 80% needing them, but with 2.5" it's all a question until the Bronco is back on the ground. Only then will you know whether you need them or not. So I recommend buying them up front, then returning them if you don't need them.

With all your fiddling with the FJ's, are you familiar with the proper angles on a double-cardan style shaft? Setup is different from the standard single-cardan style most trucks have.
Just checking...

Have fun!

Paul

Thanks, Paul. The Cruisers are definitely a different beast I am finding out versus the American trucks. Ive always been a Cruiser guy, so talking about dropped pitman arms and tracking brackets is greek to me. BTW, I have a '69 and loving it so far. Will love to more when I install power assist brakes and power steering.
So are you saying I need to get alignment specs now before the lift?
Here is my Bronco.


And my only Cruiser now.

 

[DirtDonk]

She's a beaut! And my favorite-ish color too. Boxwood Green. All it needs now is a National Park Ranger sticker on the door and you're set!

A prior readout is by no means a complete necessity. It's just nice to know what'cha got before you mess with things. And since putting the C-bushings under the radius arm caps is best done while doing the coil spring install, it's just that much nicer to know what to get ahead of time.

It's not a difficult task to do it again, but why? Right?

If you look under the front of your truck (hey, any excuse to get out and under and check that nice rig out, eh?) you will see the two link bars we usually refer to when talking about suspension lifts. One is the trackbar (Ford and Dodge's name for a "Panhard bar") which locates the axle centered in the frame. The other is the drag link (or draglink to some of us) which attaches the steering box to the main tie-rod connecting the wheels.
The two bars should optimally stay as close to parallel to each other as possible, and if possible too, should maintain the shallowest angle relative to the ground as feasible. They should also continue to pivot from almost the same plane, as Ford set them up originally.

The overall angle changes anytime you lift using the suspension, or during normal suspension cycling up and down. Bringing the angles back down closer to originally designed is done by adding a pitman arm (http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/s?keyword=pitman+arm) with more curve to it, and relocating one of the mounts of the trackbar. For gentle lifts that is usually done at the top mount on the frame with a drop bracket. For taller lifts, bigger tires and more aggressive changes, or when doing a tie-rod-over-the-knuckle swap, a riser bracket is welded to the axle housing.
(http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/s?keyword=trackbar)

A Bronco will still handle somewhat decently without any of those changes, even with a 2.5" lift. But it's not optimal by any stretch and works much better if you add about $100 bucks in those two parts into your lift calculations.

Like those angles, the fact that your Bronco's front suspension uses radius arms (also Ford's name I think) to locate the front axle, when you extend the suspension (during travel or by adding a lift) you change the caster angle negatively. The polyurethan offset C-bushings take the place of the original rubber bushings with zero offset and can add positive caster in 2, 4, 6.5 or 7 degree increments.

It's all good. A new learning curve just like when you got your first Cruiser. Just more junk to throw into the brain is all. You'll find room.

Paul

 

[navalbronco66]

I used some template guide from BC Broncos that you place on the ball joints, then place an angle finder against the template for a quick castor check. According to BC they use this template on their builds and is spot on for castor.

Getting the specs checked at an alignment shop is no doubt the best though. In my case, I wanted to make sure everything was spot on before I even got to driving my bronco. After some preliminary measurements I feared my castor was way in the negative zone even with degreed bushings so I needed to make sure before I drove it. BC Broncos little tool was a great help and showed I was actually at positive 6 castor. I had replaced the original Dana 30 with Dana 44 and was not sure the year of the 44.

The BC Broncos tool / template was 10 dollars plus shipping.

 

[01JLH]

Just saying.....I like the gun rack...wish we could still feel comfortable doing that these days...even back in the day, i'd feel uncomfortable with the gun pointed at the back of the drivers head. Surely its unloaded, but still.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

I agree with the gun pointing to the back of the drivers head, first thing I noticed about it. But onto the original question, if you can get a readout of it's alignment, then we could help you pick and choose parts. Also photos of what is already there, what you know is there etc. will help as well.

 

[BBQ BOY]

LOL, yeah, the gun in the photo cracked me up.That picture was the sellers. Then the Bronco arrived, it was still in there!!! Of course I took the old Sear bolt action 20ga out

 

[JAFO]

Really like your 'PIG'. I almost bought one several years back, but then found my FJ40 instead.

The Bronco is simply beautiful.